Devmeister
Established Member
The difference in use between 65 and 62 is insignificant and the edge retention is the same. But O1 is readily available and straight forward to heat treat. So I see no benefit to going beyond O1.
Rob Cosman Planing Technique
- Thread starter Dynamite
- Start date
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I think most makers see things the opposite way vs. you and generally how I see them - the quest to find a better blade is a perpetual opportunity (it is).
mismatch comparisons also provide opportunity (translation - you can make O1 or 1095 or steels like either seem like a lot of different things just by choosing how they're hardened and tempered. 62 hardness O1 is just wonderful. At 59, it's probably great in a pocket knife. In a chisel, it's a bit soft - noticeably so. Good chisels tend to run around 61+ for hardwoods.
I can't say much about the need for high hardness chisels - i'm enamored with a relatively inexpensive razor steel called 26c3 that's like white 1B - what it does more or less is end up with the hardness potential of japanese steel. that's for me as a maker, though -I like the feel. It's great in use, but the steel is harder to heat treat than O1, so it's not something for beginners (if it's done in a mediocre way, then it's even with O1 in chisels and less wear resistant in irons).
What I don't know is just how hard vintage japanese chisels were typically as I've gotten a couple of hundred from japan and the hardness is all over the board. (maybe it's only 150, I don't know). There may be some use for softwoods where ultra high hardness is desirable.
But I can't think of anything that I'd ever do where white/26c3 would make a difference over well tempered O1.
I can guarantee almost without exception, though, if you could make a chisel that's 2 points harder than other chisels and holds up slightly better than O1, you could market on the hardness number and the test results and sell it like crazy.
I hate that kind of thing, so it won't be me. 26c3 needs to be heat treated by hand, too, so I'm confident that no skeezy toolmaker is going to have success with it in some kind of quick commercial process. They won't be able to handle how much it can warp, either.
mismatch comparisons also provide opportunity (translation - you can make O1 or 1095 or steels like either seem like a lot of different things just by choosing how they're hardened and tempered. 62 hardness O1 is just wonderful. At 59, it's probably great in a pocket knife. In a chisel, it's a bit soft - noticeably so. Good chisels tend to run around 61+ for hardwoods.
I can't say much about the need for high hardness chisels - i'm enamored with a relatively inexpensive razor steel called 26c3 that's like white 1B - what it does more or less is end up with the hardness potential of japanese steel. that's for me as a maker, though -I like the feel. It's great in use, but the steel is harder to heat treat than O1, so it's not something for beginners (if it's done in a mediocre way, then it's even with O1 in chisels and less wear resistant in irons).
What I don't know is just how hard vintage japanese chisels were typically as I've gotten a couple of hundred from japan and the hardness is all over the board. (maybe it's only 150, I don't know). There may be some use for softwoods where ultra high hardness is desirable.
But I can't think of anything that I'd ever do where white/26c3 would make a difference over well tempered O1.
I can guarantee almost without exception, though, if you could make a chisel that's 2 points harder than other chisels and holds up slightly better than O1, you could market on the hardness number and the test results and sell it like crazy.
I hate that kind of thing, so it won't be me. 26c3 needs to be heat treated by hand, too, so I'm confident that no skeezy toolmaker is going to have success with it in some kind of quick commercial process. They won't be able to handle how much it can warp, either.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Does it come with a sharpening butler ?
I don't think that is true. At least it doesn't apply to me. I just like making things. Do I do a better job than my father's generation? Or my grandfather's? Probably not, and I don't much care - I just do the best I can. As for design skills, I have no delusions of adequacy. I just (try to) make what I want to make.
I sometimes think some exponents of furniture making want to liken it to an art form.
Plane must be this, iron sharpened this way. You must hold the handles that way. Deviation wrong.
Utter baloney in my opinion.
Too many saying you need follow this makers technique, or that you tubers technique. Worshiping them like they are gods. Up their own.. ahem.. behinds.
I'm more than sure the cabinetmakers of old didnt spent their tea breaks wittering on about such nonsense.
Plane must be this, iron sharpened this way. You must hold the handles that way. Deviation wrong.
Utter baloney in my opinion.
Too many saying you need follow this makers technique, or that you tubers technique. Worshiping them like they are gods. Up their own.. ahem.. behinds.
I'm more than sure the cabinetmakers of old didnt spent their tea breaks wittering on about such nonsense.
Devmeister
Established Member
My comment was in regard to the arms race to make a better plane blade using powder metalurgy tool steels. In my own experiments I have found this to be a rat race. The unique set of requirements for a plane blade can be met with plain 01 which is quite workable in small shops without the need for digital ovens and cryrogenic quench tanks.
Devmeister
Established Member
I think your right. And it becomes more irritating when some of these gods drop the hard sell in your lap at the end. I am willing to try a new idea. If it works great. If I don’t like it in favor of another approach well that is great to.
Orraloon
Established Member
Few professionals would talk shop and in a lot of places it was frowned on.
Acceptable topics were how much you drank last night and whether or not you got lucky.
Regards
John
Devmeister
Established Member
I like the work of bill carter. Check out his YouTube channel. His shop is small and and basic. I bring him up because he sharpens plane blades like me. A. Single bevel with the corners slightly relieved. No curves. No back bevels. No micro bevels. It’s not that hard. Sharpen the damn thing and get on with it.
Devmeister
Established Member
OMG Funny you should say that. My last shop closed last week so I am job hunting. Turns out our HR lady got the sack. The conversation last week was were she had her tattoo. Apparrently she showed my boss and the super where it was. Little left for imagination!
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
I agree, it's snobbery in a lot of cases.
Anyway, I think most contemporary furniture is over designed and over worked.
For example......Bluuurgh, pass the bucket !
It's hideous.
Yeah thats not pretty 
The legs are the worst.
In fact it looks like they were taken off something else and stuck on as an afterthought.
A single pedestal in the same timber would be an improvement.
The legs are the worst.In fact it looks like they were taken off something else and stuck on as an afterthought.
A single pedestal in the same timber would be an improvement.
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Interesting. Some might say you rate it rather generously, ha, ha. Slainte.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Rumour has it that they once held an aspidistra.Yeah thats not pretty
In fact it looks like they were taken off something else and stuck on as an afterthought.
A single pedestal in the same timber would be an improvement.
It is a cabinet by one of the all time greats, James Krenov. The legs are typical of his work, and are known as ballet dancer legs. Probably built in the 1960's.
http://jameskrenov.com/
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
The wet skid mark motif is an odd one.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Or in the laundry of an old peoples' home.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
They aren't that special except he just hit the zeitgeist somehow and good luck to him! I think he was surprised; he's quite frank about it in some of his interviews and talks of himself as just an old hippy amateur.
I do think a lot of board matched spaltered beech etc does look horribly "organic" in a way not intended and is well out of fashion!
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