Rip saw - ryoba or western ?

[EdK]

Well I ended up buying a dozuki for joint cutting a short while back and like it alot.

I am keen to get a rip saw for general use but hoping to get a better one than you average building yard bin type thing for a fiver.

I was looking at ryoba saws but have no idea what is a good one.

Guess I have up to about £25 to get one.

Is there anything suitable / comparable in the 'Western' tradition?

I was looking at Roberts and Lee but think these start at about £40 ?

Thanks
Ed

 

[Digit]

Is there anything suitable / comparable in the 'Western' tradition?

IMO, No!

Roy.

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hello Ed,

It is difficult to use a ryoba for longer-range ripping or crosscutting. Once you get the blade fully into the work, it is typical for the teeth on the 'offside' to start steering the saw offline. A true Japanese ripsaw--one that is single edge and double tapered--is pretty expensive. Vintage English ripsaws, think Spear and Jackson, are the real deal.

Wiley

 

[Pekka Huhta]

While I like japanese saws a lot, there is a problem when trying to rip any longer cuts.

If you clamp the workpiece horizontally on the workbench and use a pull saw, you are practically sawing as badly against the grain as it can be. A bit better results on long cuts can be obtained when putting the workpiece vertically between the vise jaws, but guiding the cut becomes impossible.

Best saw for ripping any longer cuts has been an old-fashioned bowsaw with a rip blade. You get 3-4 times longer movement on the saw than with a japanese one and guiding the cut is much easier.

I was a very firm believer of japanese saws before I got to use an old bow saw. It is not an "all-round saw" as a japanese one would be, but you can't beat it on specialized jobs. so if you are thinking of any longer cuts, you should consider a bow saw as well.

I have also used bow saws as a substitute for a band saw. They work fine, as long as you have one blade for long straight cuts and another for curves.

Pekka

 

[MrJay]

Talkling of which - where do people find their turning saw and bow saw blades..?

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Or find a good oldie - I use a 4.5tpi Livingston for large stuff, and a 7tpi Tyzack at the bench.

Rip teeth this size are very easy to sharpen, and needn't cost a lot.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Pekka Huhta]

Mine are all old stock, I got about 20 originally from an old school. A bit flimsy and many of them "junior sized", but otherwise pretty good.

Dieter Schmid has blades for them, both western and japanese style. A japanese blade in a western bow saw might be quite interesting to try.

http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.htm

Pekka

 

[EdK]

Thanks for the input - I guess in that case what I am after is a large western type saw.

I've heard the Tyzack ones mentioned before and will have a look to see if I can buy them online - are they still made or should I look on eBay etc for one?

Cheers
Ed

Part of the reason I ask is I have got some wood and don't want to rip it with a circular saw as the kerf is a bit wide (spose I could buy a think kerf blade for the circ...)

What kerf would you expect from a hand saw? Or is this a silly question as each one is different ?!

 

[Digit]

Best of luck! If it's a long length, and thickish, you'll be lucky to get the whole thing more accurate than with a table saw IMO.

Roy.

 

[AndrewP]

If you like Japanese style saws, another option is a rip kataba (teeth on only one side) these are available from Axminster, Dieter Schmid, Dick Fine Tools or Classic Hand Tools. The German Bow saws are pretty cool too.
Not wishing to add to the confusion here or anything :roll:
Andrew

 

[cwroy]

I use either a panel saw or a ECE bow saw with the blade 90 degree to the frame.

Remember to hold the saw with two hands when ripping. One near the blade and the other ner the tensioner.

Also it must cut perpendicular to the wood, not on a 45 degre like a distons and the likes.

And finnaly if the cut gets crooked, back up and try again. It is very much like a human powered bandsaw!

It requires more experience but I do belive it is a good route to go. Maybe someday I'll master it myself.

Best of luck

CWR

 

[Pekka Huhta]

A bow saw is particularly good in sawing expensive wood to blanks, as you can't use a circular saw on a whole trunk. I also think that on a larger trunk it's easier to saw it by hand than with a bandsaw (not that I could fit a bandsaw to my workshop ).

That's some carelian birch (or masur birch) been sawn to turning blanks for chisel handles.

Pekka

 

[Anonymous]

Ed

After many years of using Japanese saws (cheap, mid priced and one quite expensive) in preference to western style, I finally tried some good quality western saws and have found them to be much superior to Japanese on hard woods, cutting miore acuratly and more easily (often faster too). I rarely use my Japanese saws nowadays (sometimes I'll use one despite their poorer performance in hardwood just because I really like to use them).

So my experience is good quality western (I am talking LN, Adria Pax etc. here as I have no experience of old western saws) better than good Japanese, cheap Japanese better than cheap western. In hardwood!!

 

[EdK]

Thanks everyone !

Yes Tony - I bust two teeth cutting some ash last night... doh. (APTC dozuki) Silly mistake...

Think the answer is a trad. 24" / 26" western saw.

Ideally one of those nice ones begining with 'W' but might start off with something a bit easier on the wallet.

Noticed in the Tilgear catalogue that they sell two ranges of Roberts & Lee - the more expensive ones and the 'Park' ones....

Not sure on saw length nor TPI ? Any hints !

Might stretch to £40 I guess... or go for something old, cheap and pig-in-a-poke from eBay...

Ed

 

[Anonymous]

Here you go

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Pax_Range.html


Love my Pax DT saw

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hi Ed

If every mm of width counts, then agree a bowsaw is probably the best option. (Haven't tried one yet, but looks like a nice alternative to a bandsaw)

For a handsaw, IIRC you want no more than about 8 teeth in the wood for optimum performance (cutting and dust removal) which is why rip saws tend to have between 4.5 and 7 tpi.

To minimise the kerf needed, ideal is a taper ground blade as the tooth set can be so much less without the blade binding in the cut.

Thomas Flinn Beech handled Lynx 26" 4.5tpi comes in at £41 - though the handle would probably need easing for comfort. (I'm not familiar with Roberts & Lee, though guess similar spec)

There are a good few oldies on ebay at the mo - which is the route I took for my handsaws (the Livingston was born before my grandfather.) Happily, the fewer tpi, the easier they are to sharpen, and consequently the less likely are the teeth to be messed up - just need to watch out for kinked blades.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Pekka Huhta]

A traditional western rip-cut saw is very good, but you should remember one thing: the kerf is about two times wider as on a bow saw. It means double sweat when sawing

But it's a good option as well.

Pekka

 

[Digit]

What do we buy table saws for? :lol:

Roy.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Silly - they're for flattening plane soles

 

[Digit]

Ooops, silly me!

Roy.