RogerS
Established Member
And larger stones mean less of a hollow in the end of the blade?
Rexon wet stone grinder
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Jhalfa
Established Member
OK Thanks.
Here's an additional question:
How come when I read Krenov's book he swears by hollow grinding his planes and chisels, and a lot of people on this site say that hollow grinding is a bad thing? What Krenov wrote seems to make a lot of sense, although I have not ever tried it myself.
Jonathan
Here's an additional question:
How come when I read Krenov's book he swears by hollow grinding his planes and chisels, and a lot of people on this site say that hollow grinding is a bad thing? What Krenov wrote seems to make a lot of sense, although I have not ever tried it myself.
Jonathan
...or finer flour.
I think hollow grinding make a lot of sense because it make honing easier and possible more times. I can't myself see a downside to it although I admit I don't hollow grind simply because I don't have such a grinder.
Ike
Alf
Established Member
For the same reason some people swear pins first is the best way when everyone knows tail first is better*; personal preference. Personally I like a hollow grind 'cos it makes freehand honing easier and quicker, but on the other hand I'm not a fan of Krenov - personal preference, see?Jhalfa":10vqof90 said:
Cheers, Alf
*sits back and waits for reaction...
wrightclan
Established Member
Tony":2wfyp23g said:
Tony,
Don't be so modest! You could have pointed us here. :idea: :idea: =D> =D>
Your thread has given me ideas to improve the usefulness of mine; and could help others who have one. I'm thinking I could use a coarser grade to regrind a bevel, and work up to the finer grades to hone the blades (be they chisels,planes or planer blades.) Of course, for planer blades, I would have to make an impression to bring the washer below the surface of the disc.
BTW,I stumbled across your thread, doing a totally unrelated search. #-o
Brad
engineer one
Established Member
having bought one of the green tormeks, i agree with martin that it does
overall save time money and effort, if you have lots of tools.
particularly if you have to clean up big nicks, imho.
as for the hollow bevel, i think another way of looking at it is that
it makes it easier than doing twin bevels, or even to do twin
bevels.
alf whether you approve of krenov or not he does make some
interesting boxes. :roll: :twisted:
paul :wink:
overall save time money and effort, if you have lots of tools.
particularly if you have to clean up big nicks, imho.
as for the hollow bevel, i think another way of looking at it is that
it makes it easier than doing twin bevels, or even to do twin
bevels.
alf whether you approve of krenov or not he does make some
interesting boxes. :roll: :twisted:
paul :wink:
Just spotted this thread; there's a definite knack needed with the Rexon and similar.
An excellent guide to the required technique can be foundhere. This deals with the Makita version which is a bit bigger but otherwise very similar.
You probably shouldn't try to do a really serious regrind on either the Rexon or a Tormek/Jet as it seems too easy (to me at least) to end up with unbalanced knives. A coarse ~200grit Rexon stone will take off metal quite quickly, but is very soft. I get on OK with 1000 grit and the fine (6000?). If the damage is too much for these I use a sharpening service.
An excellent guide to the required technique can be foundhere. This deals with the Makita version which is a bit bigger but otherwise very similar.
You probably shouldn't try to do a really serious regrind on either the Rexon or a Tormek/Jet as it seems too easy (to me at least) to end up with unbalanced knives. A coarse ~200grit Rexon stone will take off metal quite quickly, but is very soft. I get on OK with 1000 grit and the fine (6000?). If the damage is too much for these I use a sharpening service.
Hello Ivan Thanks for that link,very informative.
I now may reconsider whether to puchase one
Alan.
I now may reconsider whether to puchase one
Alan.
Mike.C
Established Member
I have just got the green 2006 Tormek (used £100) and I have to say that my impression so far is it is an excellent machine.
It is the first time that I have every used one, but as far as I can see it will compliment my Jap wetstones very nicely.
One of the first things to impress me was the 149 page hardback instruction manual which shows you how to use every jig in their arsenal.
On the subject of jigs, this is the downside to "The Tormex Method of Grinding, Sharpening, and Honing", because they are not cheap. On the other hand IMHO I don't think that there are many users who would want the whole set, and it is more likely that most people would only need a few of them.
As I have said this is the first one I have used and I hope that someone will give me some tips on looking after the 2 wheels.
I note that they have a Diamond Truing jig for around £36. This seems a lot of money for what it is, so if one exists and at a reduced price could I use another manufacturers truing tool or is it better to stick with Tormek.
How often should I true the wheel?, or is this like asking how long is a piece of string?
Is it right that I can use earth magnets to collect the metal filings from the tool you are sharpening, and do I stick these underneath the water tank or in the tank itself?
I would be very grateful if someone can give me some tips on how best to look after the Tormek, and even some tips on using it.
Cheers
Mike
It is the first time that I have every used one, but as far as I can see it will compliment my Jap wetstones very nicely.
One of the first things to impress me was the 149 page hardback instruction manual which shows you how to use every jig in their arsenal.
On the subject of jigs, this is the downside to "The Tormex Method of Grinding, Sharpening, and Honing", because they are not cheap. On the other hand IMHO I don't think that there are many users who would want the whole set, and it is more likely that most people would only need a few of them.
As I have said this is the first one I have used and I hope that someone will give me some tips on looking after the 2 wheels.
I note that they have a Diamond Truing jig for around £36. This seems a lot of money for what it is, so if one exists and at a reduced price could I use another manufacturers truing tool or is it better to stick with Tormek.
How often should I true the wheel?, or is this like asking how long is a piece of string?
Is it right that I can use earth magnets to collect the metal filings from the tool you are sharpening, and do I stick these underneath the water tank or in the tank itself?
I would be very grateful if someone can give me some tips on how best to look after the Tormek, and even some tips on using it.
Cheers
Mike
Martin Brown
Established Member
Mike.C":1h0npc7m said:
This is a real bargain, well done.
The Truing device shpuld be your first purchase as it gives you straight plane irons and chisels much more easily than without. It also keeps the stone round to the bar in both axis too. When I demo it is the first choice I give end users. It has a cluster of genuine diamonds hence the price. Are you sure the previous owner did not have one?
The magnet is better in the water otherwise the filings drop into the water after you remove the magent from the side of the bath.
Tips are easy just ask here! Please PM me with any specific questions.
Martin
engineer one
Established Member
hi mike, welcome to the real world :lol: :lol:
to get chisels and plane blades flat and square you need two specific
bits of their kit. the bar, and the blade holder, but of course you also
need one of the angle setters.
i know it seems a lot for a round bar, and an ali casting,
but if like me you have to do a lot of stuff at times it pays for
itself very quickly.
as for the diamond truing thing that is worthwhile, not sure whether the
jet/scheppach one would fit, but learning to use it is a difficulty, since
the torque is quite strong. DC has a couple of articles which explain its
uses very well.
the magnets are valuable, and you just drop them into the water
trough. what you will find is that when first used the stone soaks up
a REAL lot of water. this is because it is very porous.
remember, that to start with just doing the bevel is actually harder than
it looks until you get used to the torque, (turning force). later you
can set up the basic flattening of the back on the vertical side.
i found it works quite well.
oh yes, you also need the stone grader which looks remarkably
like a big black rubber, but is made of a stone like substance.
this allows you to cut the grit to give a coarser or finer cutting edge.
you also need a smallish square, preferably engineers, i use a combination
square so you can move the square to fit against the blade top, and the
surface of the jig to improve squaring.
hand pressure will change the angles so try to learn to push on the centre of the blade with one finger, or a finger off both hands, with the same
pressure. some i think press up on the handle, but i think it is safer to
push on the blade.
you will be surprised by how quickly it cuts on the coarser stone setting.
soak the rubber(?) wheel in 3 in 1 or similar oil for a couple of hours before
applying the honing compound.
use kitchen towels, or j cloths to dry the blade and check the edges.
blue roll will help with removing crud from the trough.
anymore info, pm me
all the best
paul :wink:
to get chisels and plane blades flat and square you need two specific
bits of their kit. the bar, and the blade holder, but of course you also
need one of the angle setters.
i know it seems a lot for a round bar, and an ali casting,
but if like me you have to do a lot of stuff at times it pays for
itself very quickly.
as for the diamond truing thing that is worthwhile, not sure whether the
jet/scheppach one would fit, but learning to use it is a difficulty, since
the torque is quite strong. DC has a couple of articles which explain its
uses very well.
the magnets are valuable, and you just drop them into the water
trough. what you will find is that when first used the stone soaks up
a REAL lot of water. this is because it is very porous.
remember, that to start with just doing the bevel is actually harder than
it looks until you get used to the torque, (turning force). later you
can set up the basic flattening of the back on the vertical side.
i found it works quite well.
oh yes, you also need the stone grader which looks remarkably
like a big black rubber, but is made of a stone like substance.
this allows you to cut the grit to give a coarser or finer cutting edge.
you also need a smallish square, preferably engineers, i use a combination
square so you can move the square to fit against the blade top, and the
surface of the jig to improve squaring.
hand pressure will change the angles so try to learn to push on the centre of the blade with one finger, or a finger off both hands, with the same
pressure. some i think press up on the handle, but i think it is safer to
push on the blade.
you will be surprised by how quickly it cuts on the coarser stone setting.
soak the rubber(?) wheel in 3 in 1 or similar oil for a couple of hours before
applying the honing compound.
use kitchen towels, or j cloths to dry the blade and check the edges.
blue roll will help with removing crud from the trough.
anymore info, pm me
all the best
paul :wink:
Mike.C
Established Member
Martin, Paul, thank you very much. I will certainly PM you if I need any other advice
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
Glad you thought the link to Rexon style sharpening methodology was useful.
I forgot to say in my original post about my decision to get a Rexon - at the time of purchase (& now too, probably) the gubbins needed to just hold planer knives for sharpening on other systems cost more than the Rexon iteself. If the Rexon had proved quite unsatisfactory, I was going to use the Rexon's cast iron knife holder with a cheap high speed workshop grinder mounted with vertical axis, fitted with a depressed centre wheel - a sort of high speed dry Rexon if you like. The US firm Grizzly (grizzly.com) have something like this (holds 20" knives too) for a reasonable $199. This of course quite OK for HSS.
The Americans also have acess to cheap misting devices (but you do need compressed air) that fit to your 3000 rpm grinder with a magnet and direct a continual gentle mist of water to the 'hot spot' (not enough to make a mess). Never seen these in the UK, may be available?
I forgot to say in my original post about my decision to get a Rexon - at the time of purchase (& now too, probably) the gubbins needed to just hold planer knives for sharpening on other systems cost more than the Rexon iteself. If the Rexon had proved quite unsatisfactory, I was going to use the Rexon's cast iron knife holder with a cheap high speed workshop grinder mounted with vertical axis, fitted with a depressed centre wheel - a sort of high speed dry Rexon if you like. The US firm Grizzly (grizzly.com) have something like this (holds 20" knives too) for a reasonable $199. This of course quite OK for HSS.
The Americans also have acess to cheap misting devices (but you do need compressed air) that fit to your 3000 rpm grinder with a magnet and direct a continual gentle mist of water to the 'hot spot' (not enough to make a mess). Never seen these in the UK, may be available?
Mike.C
Established Member
Paul I forget to ask. I have got the jig to sharpen chisels and planes (SVH-60) and the angle setter, but I am unclear what bar you mean. It came with the normal rest/bar that the chisel/plane jig runs along and another universal support that lays horizontally along the front side of the machine and is connected to the xb-100 base.
Do you mean any of these 2?
Cheers
Mike
engineer one
Established Member
hey mike you did well, the standard machine only comes with
one horizontal bar. two mean you can keep standard heights
on the grinder and the honing wheel, making life easier.
at least i think we are both talking on the same page :?
thought i would check my instruction book to get it right,
a 2006 should come with the rear two screws and the horizontal base xb100, and into that goes a right angled steel bar which has a threaded screw and a second arm which goes into the other side of the xb 100.
you have the svh 60 so to get going all you need to check are PA70,
WM 200 or its equivalent, SP650 to change the stone grade, and
adv50d the truing tool.
i have not yet used the xb 100 for grinding away from the edge
but ready to learn.
so it looks like you are set mate.
paul :wink:
one horizontal bar. two mean you can keep standard heights
on the grinder and the honing wheel, making life easier.
at least i think we are both talking on the same page :?
thought i would check my instruction book to get it right,
a 2006 should come with the rear two screws and the horizontal base xb100, and into that goes a right angled steel bar which has a threaded screw and a second arm which goes into the other side of the xb 100.
you have the svh 60 so to get going all you need to check are PA70,
WM 200 or its equivalent, SP650 to change the stone grade, and
adv50d the truing tool.
i have not yet used the xb 100 for grinding away from the edge
but ready to learn.
so it looks like you are set mate.
paul :wink:
Mike.C
Established Member
Thanks Paul, I've got all the ones you mention except for the truing tool which I am going to order from Axminster.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Mike
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Mike
Mike.C
Established Member
The truing jig has arrived, but as Paul said using it or learning to use it may be a problem, are there any tips you can give me.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
Mike.C
Established Member
No tips anyone. The reason I keep asking is I read somewhere (I forget where now otherwise I would have got the info there) that if it is not used carefully the truing tool can leave lines in the stone.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
engineer one
Established Member
hi mike, it will leave lines, but they soon go.
i found when i first got the tormek that the torque was much greater
than i expected so holding the chisel or plane backs against the side
of the wheel was more difficult than it looked when mr brown was doing
it. but with practice you understand the problems.
the same with the diamond jig. i found initially that i had it too low.
what i think you should aim for is having the stone are horizontal
and on the centre of the stone. then you do not have to press down
too far. it does take some skill to learn to cut the whole wheel in
a smooth and simple manner. still not sure i get it right all the time,
but my clients chisels and even some of mine seem sharp enough :lol: :lol:
what you are trying to over come is two separate things, the tendency of
the wheel to go oval, and the other tendency to "round over the top"
of the wheel where you do not properly move the blade across the
wheel.
the final skill is to move the blade across the wheel properly
so that the pressure is all smooth.
does that help :lol: :?
paul :wink:
i found when i first got the tormek that the torque was much greater
than i expected so holding the chisel or plane backs against the side
of the wheel was more difficult than it looked when mr brown was doing
it. but with practice you understand the problems.
the same with the diamond jig. i found initially that i had it too low.
what i think you should aim for is having the stone are horizontal
and on the centre of the stone. then you do not have to press down
too far. it does take some skill to learn to cut the whole wheel in
a smooth and simple manner. still not sure i get it right all the time,
but my clients chisels and even some of mine seem sharp enough :lol: :lol:
what you are trying to over come is two separate things, the tendency of
the wheel to go oval, and the other tendency to "round over the top"
of the wheel where you do not properly move the blade across the
wheel.
the final skill is to move the blade across the wheel properly
so that the pressure is all smooth.
does that help :lol: :?
paul :wink:
Mike.C
Established Member
Hi Paul, thanks very much.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
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