Restoring old furniture

[Mr T]

Lets ignore the boiled linseed oil, I never mentioned using boiled linseed oil to start with.

The recipe I gave was for a reviver, lets call it an all pupose reviver. Not a stripper. You seem to be saying that the mixture will strip the finish. This is not the intention. I have used this recipe for reviver for many years, the effect it has is to clean dirt from the finish and, for shellac finishes, soften them so that some lustre can be restored by buffing with bees wax.

I have not experienced a "thin gummy film of oil" on the piece when using this reviver. Bear in mind that linseed oil is often used in french polishing to lubricate the pad and is then spirited off.

I would be reluctant to strip a finish and repolish unless the original finish was beyond recovery, isn't the responsibility of a restorer to retain the patina of a piece when possible.

 

[Matt@]

lets be honest here any restoration whether by pro or am could be considered dubious practice. somebody whos been in business for ten years has been asked by antique dealers(the main customers) to do very dodgy things and most will succomb to not lose a customer. restoration is always carried out for financial reasons NEVER to improve the piece. quote]

hmmm, bit harsh this possibly IMHO. Firstly not all restorers have main customers that are dealers and not all dealers will ask for dodgy things to be done.

Anyway, restoration v conservation --- there are many pieces out there that have little value or asthetic appeal due to their condition. Good quality and sympathetic restoration is an ethical option as it makes everyone happy. Where it all goes wrong is when a valuable item is butchered beyond redemption. Conservation is much easier to effect than restoration I think as you "just" conserve whats there. I use the word "just" as I'm sure someone will pick up on this.

Regarding using oil based products to revive. Often they give a false picture and can be misleading to work with if that makes sense. Far better to deftly use meths which gives instant results, is 100% controllable in the right hands and doesn't darken (as mentioned)

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Lets ignore the boiled linseed oil, I never mentioned using boiled linseed oil to start with.

The recipe I gave was for a reviver ... You seem to be saying that the mixture will strip the finish. This is not the intention.

Chris, it's a little difficult not to mention the linseed oil in my replies as you brought it into the conversation to start with. It's unusual to use raw linseed oil in these reviver mixes as raw linseed oil takes an extremely long time to dry whereas boiled linseed oil dries relatively quickly-- but linseed oil is linseed oil.

The reviver does work as you described reasonably well, and I've used similar mixes for a long time too. It depends what I'm trying to achieve. If I'm looking to soften an old damaged shellac finish I prefer to use neat alcohol. Most likely in that scenario I'll spray a mist coat of alcohol over the shellac until it's softened enough and resets into a continuous film. The spray technique is similar to curing orange peel in sprayed lacquer finishes by mist spraying lacquer thinner and/or lacquer retarder onto the cured film.

After that more shellac can be applied, or it can be waxed, or the piece left as is. I suppose when it comes to shellac I'm not a purist; I get the suff on with a spray gun.

The primary purpose of my original response, which seems to have got lost, is to be wary of the darkening effect linseed oil has on wood. Let's say you're reviving a tired or damaged shellac finish which has worn away at edges and corners using a white spirits, alcohol, linseed oil and vinegar mix. The mix will soften the shellac as you say, but the oil also gets on the exposed wood. Where it gets on to the wood it darkens it, and that gives a different colour to the rest of the piece.

The mix can be used as a stripper on shellac, even though it's not the most efficient stripper, but on old oil and wax finishes it definitely strips the finish even when used quite lightly. It's ocassions such as this, and where you're trying to revive an old shellac finish that's worn away in places that the question has to be asked, "Do I want to apply this linseed oil, that I know darkens the wood, to this piece of furniture?"

That was meant to be the main thrust of my contribution. Slainte.

 

[Mr T]

Richard

I've only just realised it's you that's giving me the hard time. I should have recognised your authoritative manner. It was Martin Speak at the very institution at which you teach that gave me the recipe, when I did my C&G Restoration about ten years ago, and it was considered the bees knees then. So it shows that "what goes around comes around" . I'll stick to Screwfix furniture cleaner from now on, unless you have any objections to that of course!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Richard

I've only just realised it's you that's giving me the hard time.
It was Martin Speak ... that gave me the recipe, ... it was considered the bees knees

I'll stick to Screwfix furniture cleaner from now on, unless you have any objections to that of course!

I have no personal experience of the Screwfix reviver, but I did have a look at the COSHH sheet at the Screwfix site. The only contents listed are ethanol, methanol and turpentine oil, ie, genuine gum turpentine. The first two are versions of alcohol and the last is a distilled resin high in terpenes extracted from a coniferous tree, mostly pine trees. All those ingredients are evaporative solvents so they leave no residue after the dirt's been removed. I can't tell if there are any oils in the mix. If there are any such oils they'd only be listed if they pose a health risk.

The person that probably did the most to popularise the alcohol, vinegar, white spirit and linseed oil mix as a reviver in my mind was that guru from the mid 20th century, Charles Hayward. Everybody believed every word Hayward wrote as gospel, and he was certainly prolific, and sometimes wrong, ha, ha.

I'd assumed you knew who was behind my moniker: it's just a click away and I check out all new posters I respond to right away before I open my fat mouth, ha, ha. I'm sorry if you feel a bit bruised. I wasn't trying to do that. I just thought we were discussing an interesting topic. It's certainly got some information out in the open, and hopefully one or two visitors to this thread have found something useful in the to-ing and fro-ing that's been going on. Slainte.

 

[Paul Chapman]

It's certainly got some information out in the open, and hopefully one or two visitors to this thread have found something useful in the to-ing and fro-ing that's been going on.

I've found it very interesting and informative, Richard. I think most hobby woodworkers find the whole subject of finishing and repairing old finishes quite confusing, partly because they don't do enough of it to gain experience and partly because there is so much confilicting information about and much of it does not give the whole story.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[johnnyb]

just a mention of a superb and non tricksy reviver... harrells reviver made by jenkins.(definitely no linseed oil!) it is very gentle and controllable and contains no solvents and small amounts of abrasives.

 

[johnnyb]

ps whw sounds like he should become an antique dealer then and not waste his time tickling things up as them profit margins are not to be sniffed at!!!

 

[White House Workshop]

ps whw sounds like he should become an antique dealer then and not waste his time tickling things up as them profit margins are not to be sniffed at!!!

That's what he's decided - for now. The biggest problem in that circle is that once you are well known the auctioneers push the prices as high as they can. Still, he's paid his mortgage for the next 3 months, and bought a huge trailer for the back of his truck!

 

[johnnyb]

good luck to him!

 

[restorer]

harrells reviver made by jenkins.

I can second that, been using it for 30 years.

Reviving old finishes really is a subjective and very black art. It's rare to encounter an old piece that has not been wiped over (that's French polished on top of an earlier wax finish) at some time or other.

If it's an original wax finish I would never use reviver. Just using a good soft bees wax in a circular motion has the effect of cleaning off dust and dirt while building up a new layer.

If it's been wiped you can get a patchy finish where the French polish has come off in patches. If you revive this you end up with flat areas where the reviver has striped all the wax off back to the wood, and blotchy islands of French polish.

If it's French polished all over, reviver is the way to go. Makes not much difference if it's proprietary or you make your own.

I use a mix of raw linseed oil, turpentine and pumice. Works a treat. :wink:

 

[BradNaylor]

Many years ago, when I was dealing in pine furniture and had a spraybooth at the back of my shop, a customer came in with an lovely antique mahogany side table and asked if I could 'restore' it.

I said 'Yes'!

Being young and innocent, I gave the table a good clean with Liberon Libnet, a quick sand, and then sprayed it with gloss pre-cat lacquer!

It came up a treat. The customer was absolutely delighted.

I often think about it...



... and cringe!