Respirators

[HawkEye]

What is the best possible respirator on the market for the most reasonable price? The firm I work in has no dust extraction, and it becomes especially difficult when someone is using a router, the dust and fumes created are very difficult to tolerate. Some people don't have a problem with it but I do, and want to protect myself. Can anyone recommend a good and effective respirator? Thanks.

 

[wizer]

Well since my Trend AirAce has been out of action I've been using the standard 3M type mask. I don't like them at all. I can't wear my safety specs with them and it gives me a headache for some reason. I'm sure that's just a case of setup. However, none of those problems with the AirAce. I miss it

 

[Finial]

Under health and safety law the business itself ought to sort this out, not you. Have you spoken to the boss about it? A respirator is not usually an acceptable substitute for dust extraction.

 

[brianhabby]

I was shocked to read your post and would echo the comments made by Finial above, this is definately your employer's responsibility.

regards

Brian

 

[Boz62]

I'll also speak up for the Trend Airace. Thanks to Wizer and all the others who have recommended it in past posts, I bought one a few weeks ago and it has made my life so much more pleasant cutting up man-made sheets. And it's the only mask I've ever used that doesn't mist up my specs .

I would also agree that your company should sort this - but then at least doing it yourself you can get what you want and what's best, not what they'll make do with...

 

[HawkEye]

Under health and safety law the business itself ought to sort this out, not you. Have you spoken to the boss about it? A respirator is not usually an acceptable substitute for dust extraction.

Well its taken a turn for the worse really. I find it difficult to talk about this on here because I'm quite upset to be honest.

Last week I was given the job at the firm I'm at, today I was asked to leave on the grounds that I don't ''fit in''.

I had mentioned the total lack of dust extraction in the workshop. Nobody has the dust extraction on the routers or when sanding, and the air gets very toxic. There is no ventilation either, so the place heats up and the toxic dust and fumes just hover around you. The manager took this very badly when I mentioned it, I stated several times that I'm not being funny about it, but I just thought it was a little bit unhealthy to be working in those conditions and if I could use a dust extraction machine. Turns out they don't even have any, just one nackered out hoover that barely works.

He said to me that I could tell him if I had any issues and to not keep quiet about anything, so I told him that at college I was having to use dust extraction for everything and keep health and safety in mind all the time, goggles, earphones e.t.c.

His response to this was '' if you don't like it maybe you should not be here''. He turned very funny towards me then and was not the same after that, and he made out like I was complaing about it when I was not.

On the same token I may have mentioned briefly to a workmate that I would use the company to get some work experience so I could get my NVQ and then go job searching again, I said this because I was finding all the toxic dust and fumes hard to take and it was my way of venting frustration at the fact I and others around me were expected to work in those conditions. What I said jovially must have got back to the foreman and then the manager, and I have been shown the door because of it. He gave weak excuses and lied about a few things aswell which I found quite disgusting. One of which was that I ''refused to help with deliveries without safety gloves'', I did not even ask for safety gloves, the foreman said he would get me some, I did not even mention it. He also said that I disappeared when asked to help with deliveries. I did not disappear, I went out to the front, nobody was there, so I came back in and continued work. If they wanted me to help they should have come to get me...

I'm very upset about this and very demoralised, just sat in my car for about 3 hours when I got home trying to put things into perspective. I wish I had kept my mouth shut about the whole thing. What's worse is I was working for £6.50 an hour for this week, even though I'm technically a qualified bench joiner, and was absolutely busting my arse to get as much work done as possible to show how much I want it. None of that was recognised, its just been thrown back in my face, I may aswell have sat around talking then I would not feel as bad as I do now.

I'm really devastated about this as it means I'm back to square one looking for a placement and trying in vain to further my career, what a blow.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Finial]

A bad position to find yourself in. On the other hand you may be better off out of there. Look for an employer who values his workforce. Perhaps someone else can say what rights you have now, if any. I don't think you will qualify for unfair dismissal protection after such a short time. I assume there is no union to take an interest?

On the face of it this company is breaking all sorts of health and safety law. Everyone still working there is at risk and the business is liable to penalties even before someone gets injured. This quaint old-fashioned attitude will get them into trouble sooner or later. Anyone might call the HSE about it.

 

[HawkEye]

Thanks for the post Finial, you actually helped get me excited about something today.

I phoned the HSE today after I got home but they did not seem to take much interest in what I was saying. I was told to get in touch with ACAS about unfair dysmissal which I will not qualify for anyway as it was only a trial. Do you think I should try HSE again? I don't know what I want to get out of talking to them if I phone them again and push for something.

From my knowledge and theory from college, the health and safety at this particular workshop is breaching health and safety laws.

 

[brianhabby]

HawkEye,

It might not seem like it now as you are desperately looking for a work placement but I'm sure you are better off out of there.

Phoning the HSE might vent some of your anger towards the firm but I wouldn't hold out much hope of them doing anything, but then I'm quite sceptical about these organisations anyway.

Best of luck for the future, I hope it's not too long before you find something.

regards

Brian

 

[HawkEye]

Thank you Brian. Unfortunately I realised that myself on the first day,but did not think before opening my mouth to a work collegue. For whatever reason I was not thinking about where it might land me. A passing/flippant comment in a stressful situation directed at nobody is hardly a grounds to throw someone out, but I guess if the guy in charge keeps a tight reign on that type of view of his workshop I should really have been more careful. I just wanted the work experience and then I would have probaly moved on anyway, if only I had kept my mouth shut.

 

[Finial]

The HSE wont want to get involved in disputes between employers and employees and they may be a bit cautious or sceptical about allegations from an ex employee who may have an axe to grind. It is not their role to get you back in employment with this firm or get you any compensation.

But they ought to be interested in checking out an employer who wilfully ignores the law and is still putting people at risk. You could give them specific details and ask whether this issue will be a priority for them, and what action they will take, if any.

 

[Ironballs]

I think you'll have to chalk this one up to experience, you'll gain nothing by pursuing anything further. It also sounds like you're better off out, the environment and the boss don't sound too good

 

[HawkEye]

Finial I think its worth following through if only to improve the working conditions of my ex colleagues. I will press it a little on HSE. Overall I'm happy because I tried my best and put in alot of work. Is a shame that I was not offered the position and maybe I have taken it a little strongly as it must happen to many people all the time. I just felt kind of betrayed and lied to about the proper reasons for not keeping me on, and felt a little used to be honest.

There is comfort in that I did my best and could not have done anything better. And also, hey, now I know who to complain to when ever a situation like this might occur in the future.

Iron, yeah I have no intention of trying to get anything over on them but I may call HSE which is no bother to me and may just be a catalyst for changes to be made in the firm.

I appreciate that you guys have a level of understanding, if I were to air these types of issues on other boards I would get alot of negative feedback and idiotic comments in return. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Jake]

I'd let it go. It isn't your fight any more. I suspect (of course I may well be wrong) that your real motivation isn't the safety of your ex-colleagues but revenge. You still need to get training somewhere, and you are better off writing this one off and burying it. You can be more choosey/persistent later.

 

[matt]

I'd let it go too. It's up to your ex-employees to make a stand if they're concerned about the conditions.

What do you know about the financial status of the company? If they're suffering from the downturn in the economy your ex-colleagues may not thank you for drawing attention to the H&S issues, incurring an expense that the company are currently avoiding, and thus potentially bringing about a different fate for them...

May sound far-fetched but it illustrates another way of looking at things and may go some way to explaining why a colleague got in tight with your manager/s at your expense?

A potential flavour of misplaced loyalty.

 

[HawkEye]

It would seem so. Unfortunately I don't think its about a lack of funds. The firm in question has a long history of being tight apparently, always has been, recession or no recession. Many people have left there very suddenly for spurious reasons. It felt like a bottom of the barrel type place,where the employees are not a valued part of the workplace, they are used to get the work done like you would use a piece of equiptment to cut something up and then disregard it when your not using it. The pay is especially poor, a guy who was 20, started work there at 16, had been there for four years and was on £6.50 an hour, 8am-4.30pm. He was not the lowest paid there. Technically he was a qualified joiner, and should be recieving over £10/ hour.


A total disregard for health and safety on part of the employers, but then again, as mentioned, if those there had a problem with it then they would have piped up before now. So yeah, thinking again about it I may just leave it there and leave them to it. And then close the book on it.

See this has come as a shock because this is the first time I have worked in a proper joinery shop, and I had no idea they operated in this fashion. Of course it would be generalising to say that they are all like this, of course they are not. Its just not a very nice experience to have when you are enthusiastic and wanting to work hard and just starting out. I feel very demoralised about finding work now and the possibility of having to go through a similar senario again.

 

[Finial]

Of course it would be generalising to say that they are all like this, of course they are not

Not all that rare unfortunately.

As far as dropping it is concerned, people working there now ought to be able to look out for themselves, but they may be afraid to complain in case they are sacked. Justified or not, that is common. At least you can report the facts without having to worry. And the company is saving money on dust extraction etc, giving it an unfair advantage over the competition, bad employers can drive standards down generally.

 

[HawkEye]

So do you think I should report them to HSE?

 

[Finial]

That's for you to decide, but I think I would do it. Not as revenge but in the public interest, for the reasons I suggested before. The key question is whether the problem is fundamentally about you and them, or is it about health and safety.

I don't think the HSE are likely to take a punitive approach but they might take some action to change the firm's attitude and compliance. Dust extraction is not one of their usual priorities but an employer who ignores that requirement will probably ignore others too.

If you do, keep it factual and don't expect too much from them.

Haven't you already spoken to them? You could ask about the outcome.

 

[big soft moose]

It would seem so. Unfortunately I don't think its about a lack of funds. The firm in question has a long history of being tight apparently, always has been, recession or no recession. Many people have left there very suddenly for spurious reasons. It felt like a bottom of the barrel type place,where the employees are not a valued part of the workplace, they are used to get the work done like you would use a piece of equiptment to cut something up and then disregard it when your not using it. The pay is especially poor, a guy who was 20, started work there at 16, had been there for four years and was on £6.50 an hour, 8am-4.30pm. He was not the lowest paid there. Technically he was a qualified joiner, and should be recieving over £10/ hour.


A total disregard for health and safety on part of the employers, but then again, as mentioned, if those there had a problem with it then they would have piped up before now. So yeah, thinking again about it I may just leave it there and leave them to it. And then close the book on it.

See this has come as a shock because this is the first time I have worked in a proper joinery shop, and I had no idea they operated in this fashion. Of course it would be generalising to say that they are all like this, of course they are not. Its just not a very nice experience to have when you are enthusiastic and wanting to work hard and just starting out. I feel very demoralised about finding work now and the possibility of having to go through a similar senario again.

It sounds like you are better off out of there to be honest - chances are good that they'd basically have used and abused you then discarded you like a soiled tissue. Not the experience you need at the start of your career.

my advice would be to forget the HSE , like others said its not your fight anymore and even if you motivations are honourable its going to sound like sour grapes to the HSE unless your former work mates back you up (which they probably arent going to)

I would however tell your college so that they dont send anyone else there to get used and abused too, and also make sure that your ex employer cant draw down any more of your CITB 3.5k

One other point - If this means you are now looking for a placement again, how far are you willing to travel or relocate ? I ask because i know a bloke whos brother works in a timber boat building buisness in oxford and who might (stress only might , no promises) have a trainee place available. If you'd be interested in travelling or relocating that far i could have a word ?

(I'd also mention that they have a very nice workshop with full dust extraction facilities and personal respirators available , as they also do a degree of GRP and you really dont want to be breathing that dust in)