Resawing - Japanese saw options

[D_W]

I couldn't find a hard point with 4tpi aggressive tooth pitch so looking at Japanese alternative.

I am aware Japanese saws can't be hardened but as an occasional user I think I'll be fine.

Due to limited time to do woodworking, it's taken me ages to get to a stage where I can finally work on projects I've wanted to do for a while (building a bench took a few months!)

So spending more time trying to get a saw into working condition is a hugely unappealing idea, restoring hands planes was pita enough, and only did it because no cost effective quality alternative existed. Similarly for building a frame saw, it would be ideal but they only seem available as a kit.

I'll be sawing at angle and flipping the board so although the width is 250mm, I'll be sawing a subset of that amount in one stroke.

These are the largest pieces I'll be working on for the foreseeable future - they are left overs from an oak worktop I snagged from someone redoing their kitchen

You can sharpen disposable saw teeth, you just need to do it with a diamond feather style file and sharpen only part of the tooth. Eventually, you'll find the hard outer part of the tooth gone if you do it a few times, but you'll also probably damage the saw before then.

If you use a ryoba or kataba, you'll find that you have to bear on it in some woods, which may lead to problems.

I mistook your measurement when commenting earlier for reasons I can't imagine - 250mm being about 10 inches, I was thinking 4. It's going to be a tough slog. All I can recommend is that if you're going to have a go at it, cut the corners first with the teeth aligned to sever "up the straws" and not back into them, as in you're pulling the saw with the near corner facing you being long grain on the top and end grain facing you.

This is a job for a regular rip saw, and definitely not a hard point combo tooth - those would just rasp.

 

[D_W]

Does the fact that the op wants to resaw dry oak and not freshly cut timber makes no difference in the recommendations?

Yes, less aggressive teeth and less set for dry hardwoods.

 

[worker]

I am reconsidering Japanese saws based on the comments here.

Is 4tpi too aggressive?

 

[thetyreman]

there are some japanese saws that CAN be sharpened, but they are a lot more expensive, I have one that's excellent made from blue paper steel that I got from niwaki.com, amazing ryobi saw, sharpening it however is extremely challenging and you need a special japanese saw file.

 

[D_W]

I am reconsidering Japanese saws based on the comments here.

Is 4tpi too aggressive?

in 10 inch wood, definitely not.

I have a western handsaw that's 2 3/8 teeth per inch and it's by no means too aggressive for wood that wide.

 

[D_W]

there are some japanese saws that CAN be sharpened, but they are a lot more expensive, I have one that's excellent made from blue paper steel that I got from niwaki.com, amazing ryobi saw, sharpening it however is extremely challenging and you need a special japanese saw file.

if you find a chinese diamond feather file and sharpen only one of the facets on the hard tooth saws, you'll be shocked at how sharp they get- as good as new. On crosscut teeth, it's the inside facet at the top of the tooth - just try to track a diamond feather file over that facet without touching anything else (it's easier than it may seem). Same with the rip teeth - just refresh their profile. The induction hardening has a little bit of depth so you can do it a couple of times. It's not so much a money saving thing, it's a matter of it's often easier to just sharpen the saw in front of you than it is to get another saw.

 

[Jacob]

I am reconsidering Japanese saws based on the comments here.

Is 4tpi too aggressive?

You just fancy Japanese saws! They are fashionable. Don't let us put you off!
If you just want to rip 250mm the most sensible option is the western 3tpi ("4 point") which also happens to be the most easily sharpened.

 

[pgrbff]

You just fancy Japanese saws! They are fashionable. Don't let us put you off!
If you just want to rip 250mm the most sensible option is the western 3tpi ("4 point") which also happens to be the most easily sharpened.

They're just different, same goes for waterstones.

 

[Adam W.]

I am reconsidering Japanese saws based on the comments here.

Is 4tpi too aggressive?

It depends on how much experience you have with sawing and how much planing you want to do afterwards.

If you are new to sawing you may find that it is hard to start and bounces around, but if it's sharp and set well it will be easier. Again this requires experience to get right.

In the end you'll only know if it's right for you by trying it. If you are considering that first ebay saw, you have a lot of work to do to get it going properly and there are better saws on offer for less money. The second one is finer, but in better condition and has been filed and set by someone who fiddles with saws already and it may work "out of the box', but it will be easier to start and should produce a finer finish.

 

[imageel]

I have re-sawn similar sized pieces of Sapele using a 240mm Ryoba and it can be done but will definitely give you a work-out!
My Ryoba was bought from Axminster some 10y ago (and is not listed anymore) and whilst it is my go-to handsaw both crosscut and rip sides have remained very sharp so I have never thought to re-sharpen it, albeit I can see that the crosscut teeth are very fine and blue'd from heat treatment so as others have said would likely require a very fine diamond file. The rip side whilst it may be hardened is not blued so maybe slightly easier to sharpen with conventional saw files.
One aspect I like about these saws are their very fine kerf, which means they cut very fast since very little material is being removed.
Another is the fact that these saws cut on the pull stroke so are more suited to the user being lower and in front of the workpiece being sawn - AFAIK traditional Japanese woodworkers do not use eastern style workbenches and instead kneel or sit cross legged on a cushion and hold the workpiece upright in front of them and I can attest that this is quite a comfortable position to work from and of course aids the clearance of the woodchips

 

[imageel]

After a quick search I found a similar blade to the one my Ryoba has, not cheap.. Hishika Handmade Japanese Replacement Blade for Ryoba Hardwood 240mm

 

[furnace]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spear-Jackson-9500R-Trad-Handsaw/dp/B0043YN9BQ/
These are great. Cheap, well made and resharpeanable. They're a little fine for deep resawing, but work OK. £4 for a file and it can become a pure rip cut in 10mins.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spear-Jackson-9500R-Trad-Handsaw/dp/B0043YN9BQ/
These are great. Cheap, well made and resharpeanable. They're a little fine for deep resawing, but work OK. £4 for a file and it can become a pure rip cut in 10mins.

Or a bigger file and turn 10pts into 5pts? Not that I've ever done that but it looks like a good idea!

 

[lexi]

I recently ripped through the centre of 14ft x 7" x 1 1/4" Kiln dried Euro Oak.
After starting with a few saws including both sharpened disston and japanese, I found the Bahco 244 was best. About £7 each. Buy two and your quid is in. Nothing but hard work of course and no saw will give you an easy ride. I just used marking gauge and pencil it in. On another piece I made a kerf plane and gouged out a few mm. It didn't make any difference.

 

[worker]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spear-Jackson-9500R-Trad-Handsaw/dp/B0043YN9BQ/
These are great. Cheap, well made and resharpeanable. They're a little fine for deep resawing, but work OK. £4 for a file and it can become a pure rip cut in 10mins.

That is an interesting option - I believe it's the one recommended by Paul Sellers? Financially palatable but would require a bit of work to make it coarse enough to resaw as quickly as possible

Or a bigger file and turn 10pts into 5pts? Not that I've ever done that but it looks like a good idea!

Any idea what size file would be needed for something like that?

I recently ripped through the centre of 14ft x 7" x 1 1/4" Kiln dried Euro Oak.
After starting with a few saws including both sharpened disston and japanese, I found the Bahco 244 was best. About £7 each. Buy two and your quid is in. Nothing but hard work of course and no saw will give you an easy ride. I just used marking gauge and pencil it in. On another piece I made a kerf plane and gouged out a few mm. It didn't make any difference.

The piece I have to resaw started off ok with my old (but hardly used) 8tpi Draper hardpoint, managed to meet the kerf from both sides to the middle of the top but got bogged down after a couple of inches. Probably not as good as Bahco but likely to have the same issue?

 

[Stevekane]

This from somone who wouldnt attempt a job like that, could you run the skillsaw down both sides and cut the rest with a screwfix hardpoint saw which would be guided by your initial cuts?
Or try to find someone like your local Mens Shed who might have a bandsaw.
Steve.

 

[Droogs]

My recommendation would be one of these; a frame saw. you can make your own for about £25 using a replacement blade from a mitre saw jig (600mm long) and rip cut available in Wicks for around a tenner.

https://www.fine-tools.com/rouboframesaw.html

 

[Adam W.]

That is an interesting option - I believe it's the one recommended by Paul Sellers? Financially palatable but would require a bit of work to make it coarse enough to resaw as quickly as possible



Any idea what size file would be needed for something like that?



The piece I have to resaw started off ok with my old (but hardly used) 8tpi Draper hardpoint, managed to meet the kerf from both sides to the middle of the top but got bogged down after a couple of inches. Probably not as good as Bahco but likely to have the same issue?

These warehouse hardpoint saws are for cutting panel products or crosscutting softwoods, not ripping timber in any meaningful way as the teeth are completely the wrong shape.

 

[ecokestove]

Nokogiri | FINE TOOLS Second saw down is the one you would want if you want to do it the Japanese way.

Pete

I have that saw, and I have been using it this afternoon, on Siberian Larch. It rips well, and I have no trouble cutting straight if I cut between two lines rather than on one. Can be awkward to start, but once it's going it's fine. I could try it on Oak tomorrow.

 

[thetyreman]

if you find a chinese diamond feather file and sharpen only one of the facets on the hard tooth saws, you'll be shocked at how sharp they get- as good as new. On crosscut teeth, it's the inside facet at the top of the tooth - just try to track a diamond feather file over that facet without touching anything else (it's easier than it may seem). Same with the rip teeth - just refresh their profile. The induction hardening has a little bit of depth so you can do it a couple of times. It's not so much a money saving thing, it's a matter of it's often easier to just sharpen the saw in front of you than it is to get another saw.

I use this for sharpening it, Saw File - Sharpenng Tool For Saws