Replacing or upgrading a table saw: advice please

[Acanthus]

Hi guys,

I have been an enthusiastic 'lurker' for several months, and have grown to admire this forum and the expertise and craftmanship demonstrated in the posts and photos. Given the wealth of experience of members, I would now be grateful for some advice.

My table saw has died, caput, defunct like a Norwegian Blue Parrot.

It was not a fantastic machine, but has served me very well for a decade. It was only a Draper 10 inch job with an aluminium table with a rather sad mitre fence. Well I have the approval of the LOML to get a replacement, (in fact she knows full well that I must have one if I am to complete her new kitchen) and I would like to move a little upmarket. until very recently all of my woodworking has been on the house, and I now hope to be able to move on to some more precise work with quality timber, perhaps even cabinet and furniture making.

The big question seems to be do I need a cast iron table as on the Axminster TS-200 at £335 and what would I gain over a machine that looks like an updated version my old machine? say the Makita MLT 100 or the Ryobi EST 1525SC at half the price. And how wonderful is a sliding table anyway?

Space is limited in my little workshop which is 3/4 of a garage, having lost the other 1/4 to a laundry.

Any reasoned advice will be very gratefully received.

David

 

[OPJ]

One of the joys in owning the Axminster TS200 (particularly if you're working in a small garage) is that, unlike your other two suggestions, it has a quiet, induction motor. Of course, it'll still make a bit of noise when it's cutting but, it would keep your neighbours happy.

I think some members have said the fence could be better but, you can buy a decent replacement from Axminster for about £50 (wizer did this).

I'm sure I've seen some negative comments about that Makita saw - despite the name, it's more of a "budget" saw, compared to the 2704 model (around £500).

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[mailee]

I would definitely recommend the SIP cast iron saw. I myself have the 12" version but know the 10" version is still a wonderful bit of kit. I do not have the sliding table with mine but have found it to be very accurate. For a 4HP saw it is very quiet with an induction motor and very solidly built. I bought mine second hand from Flea bay for £500 and know it will last me for many years to come. JMHO. :wink:

 

[Chems]

I would definitely recommend the SIP cast iron saw.

I couldn't love my SIP saw more, I'd literally keep it in my bed if it would fit. The sliding table is a must, they are brilliant. I got my 10" saw new with sliding table for £700. There is a Fox clone about to be sold here on the forum for the same amount of money. Might be worth an ask.

 

[flounder]

A Bletchley boy!
Sorry I can't offer any constructive advice on the saw front but wanted to welcome you to the forum anyway!

 

[Acanthus]

Thanks for the welcome guys, and thanks for the suggestions.

The new Axmister TS200 should arrive on Monday, and by the sound of the Users Reviews on Axminster's website, it will take me all of next week to get it put together.

In fact I am still no wiser as why an iron table is better than one made of aluminium. As far as I can see the only issues that appear to have a bearing are

1)friction, 2) how flat is it, and 3)rigidity. Seriously does anyone know of any real research? Is there any possibility that this is just manufacturer's spin?

Thanks again guys

David

 

[Digit]

(in fact she knows full well that I must have one if I am to complete her new kitchen)

Crafty! You missed one point, CI absorbs vibration better but all your other points are also valid. I also have the SIP and it does everything bar make tea! Alli lids tend to wear in the slots PDQ, so if you use them for various jigs, as I do the jigs can very soon become sloppy.
CI every time!

Roy.

 

[OPJ]

I used to own a £200 table saw with an aluminium top... It wasn't flat and, with the lack of weight, whenever you were working with anything 3ft or longer, it was too easy to tip the machine on to its back legs!

You should be very happy with that purchase - make sure we have plenty of photos once you get around to using it! :wink:

 

[cjp]

Are you sure your table saw is dead? It's not just sleeping?

Seriously though, does anyone know if the Makita 2704 is any good? I was thinking about getting it in the future with the fold-up stand (http://bit.ly/9pZNCU) as space is real tight for me. The only thing I don't like is the price!

Charlie

 

[Acanthus]

Hi Charlie,

Yes it is well and truly dead, and you can hear ground up metal falling out of the bearings, in fact it may even be nailed to its perch.

Naturally the manufacturer no longer makes this model, or has any spares for it,

No experience of your potential Makita so can't help there.

I can't wait for Monday and the challenge of assembling my new Axminster despite the suspect instructions book.

Dave

 

[matthewwh]

Hi David,

Welcome aboard!!

From the reports I've read you won't be dissatisfied with the TS200. I recently bought a Kity from Mike Clewlow and it is absolutely a-chuffing-mazing the difference a big solid lump of cast iron makes. Thanks again Mike both for the combi and the lesson in how to use the spindle moulder safely.

Good luck putting it together, I'm sure there are plenty of folks on here who can help out if you get stuck, alternatively call Axminster, their technicians know the products inside out and are always happy to help. If you need blades for it just give me a shout.

 

[Acanthus]

So the great day arrived, the TS-200 arrived and I eventually cleared enough space to unpack the cartons. As luck would have it, you only get to the instructions which were underneath everything, next to the pallet, so missed the bit about retaining all packaging.

The thing was a real challenge to put together, with very little help from the manual - just as the customer's reviews on the Axminster site said it would be. Some things had changed out of recognition from the version that the manual described - eg. the system for adjusting the height of the side table has improved a great deal, but it takes a fair bit of time and thought working out how this version works.

Eventually I have it all together, and worryingly there are two short bolts with round headed nuts left over, no idea at all where to put them. So move on and started to check alignment, the blade is as near true as my engineers T can show, and is parallel to the slots cut into the table. This is good, and getting better.

Then try ripping a bit of scrap timber: true joy, but wait, after I have cut about 25 cm it jambs, and I switch off fast. Turns out that the rip fence is 3mm out of true! and was pinching the timber against the blade and riving knife

Phoned their help line, and the guy could not have been more helpful, explained that I had a ridiculously out of date manual and emailed me the current one instantly. Also he knew what the two short bolts and round head nuts were for. (end stops for the sliding table) He explains that the instructions for adjusting the rip fence are in the new manual. Great.

So I get to work, only the model has changed even from the up to date manual, and there is NO way of adjusting the fence for true. This is serious. Phoned up yet another technician, he tells me the same stuff about adjusting clamp assembly N shown of picture no 44, but there is no part N. This guy nearly manages to hide his view that I am some sort of prat, and agrees to go and have a look at a current model, and phone me back.

So Wednesday morning, he phones, sure there is no adjustment, the instructions are out of date. Either the engineer in China grinds it square or it is not square and there is no way of correcting it. He agrees to send me another - they are expecting next delivery in mid September! I am not terribly enthusiastic about the wait, and suggest that he goes and nicks the casting from the model in his showroom, he not keen on that, but he has another idea which I did not understand. Anyway the replacement arrived this morning (Thursday) and this is much better, but still about 1 mm out. I guess that I will have to live with that. I may have a go at grinding the faulty one square - it is obvious where the grinding is not quite true.

Reasonable service, and a great machine. I have been like a kid with a new toy cutting up waste, and just enjoying the feel of it. The LOML confirms that I have been like a kid with a new toy, but wants to know when the kitchen will be finished.

Oh and finally thanks to all of those guys who were so keen to convince me of the merits of a cast iron table, I was not absolutely sure of the advantages but having used one there is no going back for me.

David

 

[RogerS]

Hi Dave and welcome....how frustrating for you and another black mark against Axminster. Come on guys...are you taking your eyes off the ball here?

If your rip fence is binding the timber against the blade especially at the rear then THIS IS NOT GOOD. You are in danger of getting kickback. Get it sorted ASAP and don't take 'no' for an answer from Axminster.

You did well not to buy the Ryobi....I had one and sold it sharpish.

Cast iron is great. Just make sure that you never leave any 'green' wood on it overnight. DAMHIKT.

 

[Steve Maskery]

... stil about 1mm out...

This is not acceptable! That is an enormous amount! Do not accept it!
Enough with the exclamation marks already!

Cheers!
Steve!

 

[MickCheese]

I didn't realise the Axminster one had a cast iron table, my Kity, of which the TS-200 is a copy, has a cast aluminium table. (No Mag switches for me!) Great saw though.

Mick

 

[Acanthus]

So I went and did a little fettling and got the plunge micrometer out, and have got the gap down so that the far end of the rip fence is only 0.2mm nearer to the blade than the near end. Actually I took the measurements from the slot machined into the table, which I have previously established as being parallel to the blade. I can now cut timber without it feeling it is binding. Is this acceptable? I was alarmed about the idea of kick-back, or should I go and have another word with the nice men at Axminster?

Thanks for all of this advice guys

David

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK. Well 0.2mm is not great but a darn sight better than 1.0. If you can get it to half that then I suggest that that is reasonable.

For ripping I suggest you use a short fence. I'm not familiar with that particular saw. If you can pull the fence back then great, otherwise make a short fence like mine.It will make it a lot safer, especially if your fence is out a bit.
S

 

[Acanthus]

Thanks Steve, and a very nice video. The short fence device will be my first task in the morning.

However it has got me thinking, why do toolmakers produce rip fences that extend back beyond the blade? your video seems to show that they serve no function other than making the saw more dangerous, and likely to produce kick-back, or am I missing something?

David

 

[Steve Maskery]

No, you are not missing anything. Well, not much.

A long fence is helpful if you are cutting wide boards, plywood, for example. If the fence is a long way away from the blade, then a short one does not offer very much support for the last part of the cut. However, if you are cutting wide sheets regularly, you would be better off with a sliding table anyway. A rip fence is, as its name suggests, for ripping.

A full-length fence is also handy for some jigs such as a tenon jig or a mitre kerf spline jig.

But for ripping, a short fence is definitely safer than a long one.

Enjoy your machine.
S

 

[puff_paddy]

I don't suppose you still have the expired draper? I could use a couple of parts........would be worth some beer tokens ! :lol: