Replacement fine stone

[DrD]

Afternoon all,

Apologies for another sharpening thread, but I'd like some suggestions for a replacement fine honing stone. For chisels and plane irons.

I currently use a Norton coarse/fine oilstone followed by a small white barbers honing stone I'm borrowing off of my brother, then a strop with autosol. This works well for me.

Problem is, brother wants the stone back (I know right :roll: ) so I want to replace it with something similar. I don't know how fine the stone is, (brother reckons "1000", he uses it for putting a bevel on cut throat razors), it says corundum on the side and when used with water you get a fine grey paste as you work the chisel.

Any thoughts on what would be a good replacement for use between the fine side of a Norton IB-8 oilstone and a loaded strop? Don't have strong preference for oil or water.

Cheers in advance,

Donny

 

[Biliphuster]

The problem with saying "about a 1000" is that it could mean many different things depending on which system he is quoting.

I Use a Fine India, followed by a Black Arkansas and then Tormek diamond paste, which works well for me. The Black Arkansas is quite slow, but does leave a nice finish.

For reference according to grit size charts a Fine India is 35 micron, Black Arkansas about 8 and the Tormek diamond paste is 3. I imagine Autosol is a bit finer than diamond paste but it should not make much difference.

 

[undergroundhunter]

I tend to use a norton combination stone on the fine side then a 2nd hand washita I got from a carboot for £3 I then strop with green oxide on leather. Hair poppingly sharp. Works for me. I use one of these http://goo.gl/tfmJHQ for my knives then I strop so it could be a good replacement for the washita.

Matt

EDIT: If I just need to do a quick sharpen then I just use the washita and strop if I have a little more time I will use the norton fine first. As has been said further down the washita and strop under normal circumstances are serious overkill but I still do it, it only take a second longer and it does give me a finer edge so why not?

 

[Jacob]

Norton do coarse, medium, fine.
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... on+m_54462

They'll do everything a normal woodworker needs, and last you for life. Similar stuff available 2nd hand very cheap.

There's masses of other kit and bewildering information about, but it's strictly for sharpening enthusiasts and of little value to woodworkers.
Keep it simple!

 

[ED65]

If you want to stick to an oilstone would you be able to hold off for a while until something crops up at a car boot? There are so many older stones floating around out there that are looking for their next custodian and many are only pocket change.

If you need something now I can recommend a specific 1000 grit diamond plate that I bought on Aliexpress, It's inexpensive so if need be you could consider it as a stopgap, but it is fine enough to use as the final step in sharpening for a plane iron for most uses. When you need something a little more refined you can strop afterwards.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

For quite a lot of work, the edge from the fine side of the IB8 will do a perfectly acceptable job, with the last of any wire edge chased off on the strop. Such tools as jack planes, try planes and chisels for chopping duties should perform well enough thus sharpened in most circumstances.

For those tasks where a bit of extra sharpness can be helpful (chisels for finish paring duties, smoothing plane irons for the 'last finishing pass' and so on) then a finer stone can be useful, and there are quite a few options. Hard black or translucent Arkansas stones are well thought of, and whilst they're expensive, you'll only need to buy one once in a lifetime.

A couple of years ago, I bought one of these - http://www.inigojones.co.uk/products/Honing-Stone.php - and it's great! Including P&P, it comes to about £12, which is a LOT less than an Arkansas. It needs a quick scrub with fine wet and dry under a running tap to clear a sort of 'fuzz' from the surfaces, but that's easy. I use mine with the same oil I use on the India. It's a bit softer than the hard Arkansas stones (though nowhere near as soft as a waterstone), and will mark if abused; I use mine by only drawing the edge towards me, lifting off on the 'forward' stroke - that avoids dig-ins spoiling the stone. Do the main honing on the India, but don't back off. Transfer to the slate, and give about six or eight passes holding the tool about a couple of degrees higher than on the India, then turn over and draw back to back off the wire edge. Repeat the bevel - back - bevel - back about three or four times, and the edge should be better than a stropped one - just wipe off the oil and put it to work. It doesn't seem to cut much at all, but it does polish or burnish the edge very nicely.

Another 'cheap' option might be a very fine wet-and-dry paper (2000 grit or even finer if you can find it) glued to a piece of wood, and used the same way as described above.

 

[bugbear]

I would heartily recommend my Silkstone for your purpose, but they're not common.

The Inigo Jones stones may be comparable - it's hard to know, since Wales has quite a lot of slate quarries, all slightly different; mother nature hates repeating herself.

Failing this, a Washita fills the gap between India-so-called-fine and Arkansas very nicely; I find jumping straight to Arkansas a little too much of a grit change.

BugBear

 

[John15]

From the above posts it looks like I'm a bit over the top. I use 1000, 6000 and 12000 Japanese waterstones freehand (no strop) for a good edge.

John

 

[ED65]

From the above posts it looks like I'm a bit over the top. I use 1000, 6000 and 12000 Japanese waterstones freehand (no strop) for a good edge.

It depends on what you use your edges for to some extent, and whether you sharpen purely for sharpness or in part because you enjoy the process. A lot of waterstone sharpeners seem to use them because they actively enjoy working on them (feel, sound, polish), rather than because of their fast cutting. If speed alone were the goal then diamonds will always win out, but there's no 'romance' to them.

I've talked with a woodworker who figured he needed to go higher than 10k to get the edges he was looking for, settling at 30k or 40k which I told him was a bit pointless for most tools, but I went through a process looking for the ideal thing for charging my strops after I decided that 0.5 micron diamond just wasn't fine enough. We all obsess over different things

 

[DrD]

Thanks for the responses all!

I used chisels and planes straight off the norton fine for a while with no major complaints. But I do prefer the edge after a once over on the finer stone and a strop. I don't go nuts, takes like 30s on each.

A closer look at the stone I need to give back reveals it has some branding written on the side.
"Aloxite superfine no.200". Some reading on straight razor forums suggests this is something like a 6k waterstone in terms of grit size, but this stone is rock hard. I have no frame of reference so I'm afraid I can't judge for myself how fine it is.

My bro uses a inigo jones slate as a final hone on his straight razors - too fine for straight off a norton fine oilstone?

Would a cheap 1k/6k combination i.e. ice bear (or similar?) waterstone or a inigo jones slate fill the gap(s) better?

 

[bugbear]

A closer look at the stone I need to give back reveals it has some branding written on the side.
"Aloxite superfine no.200".

A quick search shows that these come up on the 'bay every so often, price 5-20 quid.

So if you like it, buy one!

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

Thanks for the responses all!

I used chisels and planes straight off the norton fine for a while with no major complaints. But I do prefer the edge after a once over on the finer stone and a strop. I don't go nuts, takes like 30s on each.

A closer look at the stone I need to give back reveals it has some branding written on the side.
"Aloxite superfine no.200". Some reading on straight razor forums suggests this is something like a 6k waterstone in terms of grit size, but this stone is rock hard. I have no frame of reference so I'm afraid I can't judge for myself how fine it is.

My bro uses a inigo jones slate as a final hone on his straight razors - too fine for straight off a norton fine oilstone?

Would a cheap 1k/6k combination i.e. ice bear (or similar?) waterstone or a inigo jones slate fill the gap(s) better?

My finest stone in regular use is a 1200 diamond eze lap. It cost just short of £30 for a 6" x 2". With the use of a strop it fulfills all my sharpening needs.
I have much finer stones, several of them, including a slate and a Arkansas. They never see any use.
You can switch from oil to waterstones between grits but I'm not sure that I could be bothered. If you start with oil you may as well finish with it too.

 

[adrspach]

The Aloxite No 200 is finisher barber hone with grit arrount 8-10 000 (depends on the norm you use).
The original DT from Inigo Jones is only from one location and even then specialy sellected by Mr Rogers. (watch out for fakes from other sellers). It has interesting habit. Id you lap it (dress it) coarse, use with water and you do not use much of presure it can give medium results (about equivqlent of 3000. If you lap it fine with thin oil or water it will give fine results.

To your question if the King Ice Bear or DT will fill the gap yes it will. The king will be quicker but no oil option and DT can be finer but slower.

Thanks for the responses all!

I used chisels and planes straight off the norton fine for a while with no major complaints. But I do prefer the edge after a once over on the finer stone and a strop. I don't go nuts, takes like 30s on each.

A closer look at the stone I need to give back reveals it has some branding written on the side.
"Aloxite superfine no.200". Some reading on straight razor forums suggests this is something like a 6k waterstone in terms of grit size, but this stone is rock hard. I have no frame of reference so I'm afraid I can't judge for myself how fine it is.

My bro uses a inigo jones slate as a final hone on his straight razors - too fine for straight off a norton fine oilstone?

Would a cheap 1k/6k combination i.e. ice bear (or similar?) waterstone or a inigo jones slate fill the gap(s) better?