Removing the wire edge?

[Nads]

After lapping the back of a chisel/plane iron and honing the bevel to the required angle, what’s the best way to remove the wire edge, which is created by sharpening process. I’ve heard people say you can dig the blade in hardwood (is this the end gain of normal grain?) Or is it best just to genteelly lap the back of the blade and then sharpen the bevel side alternately until the wire edge has gone? Some advice from you guys would be great!? :?

How do you guys compare diamond against water stones? As I currently use waterstones, but have heard loads of good things about the trend double sided diamond stones! :?

Cheers Everyone!

 

[Alf]

...what’s the best way to remove the wire edge, which is created by sharpening process. I’ve heard people say you can dig the blade in hardwood (is this the end gain of normal grain?) Or is it best just to genteelly lap the back of the blade and then sharpen the bevel side alternately until the wire edge has gone?

The latter. Although if it's not a super critical edge you're after you can run the edge through a bit of end grain softwood. If you think about it, any time you remove the wire edge by breaking it off rather than abrading it away you'll be leaving a jagged edge. This is only desirable when you're slicing tomatoes and such.

How do you guys compare diamond against water stones? As I currently use waterstones, but have heard loads of good things about the trend double sided diamond stones! :?

One is wet and doesn't stay flat without care, but you reveal fresh cutting surfaces all the time. The other can be wet, or paraffin-y in my case, stays flat but the cutting edge can become less effective over time. Some folks have trouble with them losing their bite too soon (not found that a problem myself, but then diamonds are a girl's best friend...) and the finest diamond stone isn't very. Then there's diamond paste which is as flat as your substrate, has the fresh cutting edge thing any time you want to add some more, isn't wet at all and goes down to ridiculously small micron sizes.

Confused? Ah, ain't sharpening wunnerful? :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Nads]

Cheers Alf,

what you said about removing the wire edge makes sense to me, and that’s roughly what technique I currently use! It’s just sometimes it takes me a while to total remove the wire edge – and was just wondering what other techniques people use? Sometimes it’s good to reassured that your doing something the correct way by someone in the know! :wink:

What do you use for sharpening, oil stones isn’t, or do you use a combination of things? I was just wondering what people’s verdict was on them, as they seem expensive but get great reviews from loads of people. When might people use diamond stones over traditional methods? :?

One of these days I might be able to give some good advise to someone else……….or maybe not? :wink:

Thanks agian

 

[Steve Maskery]

Nads,
I'm on my own sharpening journey, too.

I've tried everything, and until recently kept coming back to my Arkansas oilstones, but they are old, as they were my Dad's before me, and are no longer very flat. Not unusable, but certainly not good.

I'm currently using wetstones, and getting to like them more and more, aspecially with the Veritas MkII Honing Jig (I'm beginning to sound like and advert for them, today).

My experience with diamonds was poor. As Alf says, not very fine, and I also found that some of the diamonds came off quite quickly, so it was easy to ram your nice edge into a slightly proud diamond and ruin it. Mine was a 3M and I bought it probably 15 years ago, so they may be better now.

Scary Sharp is good, you just have to remember to pull every time, or you tear up the SiC paper.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what you use, just stick to one way and get good at it!

Cheers
Steve

 

[JFC]

Im back on the Indian oil stone at the moment , sharpen the blade , wipe the oil off on my jeans and lap it on my palm , what ever the stone im using i always use my palm to finish off . Some diamond stones come with a leather pouch that i assume is for lapping .

 

[Alf]

Yikes, didn't know you wanted someone in the know... 8-[ ]

What do you use for sharpening, oil stones isn’t, or do you use a combination of things?

The drastic increase in the amount of A2 steel and new blades in my workshop has meant I use all sorts these days. The DMT coarse/fine gets a good deal of work on everything, with an oilstone on O1 and 0.5 micron diamond paste for A2. For back flattening and such, 45 micron diamond paste is my current answer to the world's ills. I'm a sharpening butterfly, me. Can't wait to buy a load of O1 blades for the BUPs; just need TLN to do O1 for his planes and chisels and I'll happily get back to my oilstone again. :wink:

Steve, those Arkansas stones? Flatten 'em! Or else send 'em to me; I've a lowly Washita here.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Steve Maskery]

Steve, those Arkansas stones? Flatten 'em!

What do you recommend, Alf? I've tried. But it takes for ever, and even I have a bit of a life.

Steve, who has almost finished his comp entry today!

 

[Alf]

I have a bit of a life.

Ah, that's a drawback...

What have you tried so far?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Colin C]

Here we go :wink:
Unlike most if not all here I use a single bevel on all my tools and I have an Eze-lap diamond stone (medium ), then on a fine ceramic stone and then finished off with metal polish cream on a block of mdf with some leather glued to it.
I find this way I get a very good edge quickly
Ps I also use a record honing guide for all of it 8-[ ( I think time to get some coffee )

 

[engineer one]

to heighten the controversy, i use a tormek to start out my sharpening, after flattening the back on a diamond stone, and then an 8000 wet stone.

after setting the primary bevel on the tormek, i hone the back edge on the leather wheel. then onto a wet stone for the secondary bevel. and finally back to the leather hone.

before the tormek, i use the leather strop from DMT/Starkey, and their honing paste. others have used the rockers old product autosol chrome polish.

knocking it of on a piece of wood does not really remove the wire edge properly.

paul :wink:

 

[kygaloot]

Nads,

I use only two oilstones. The first is a medium India stone. The second is a translucent Arkansas stone.

As far as the wire edge goes, I do what you described. As soon as I can feel a wire edge, I flip it over and lap the back and then go back to the bevel for a very light one or two strokes.

No stropping, no wood, no bloody palms.

 

[Paul Chapman]

And when you have achieved that perfect edge :roll: use Solvol Autosol to get a mirror finish on the curved part of the cap iron so that those silky smooth shavings just glide out of the plane.

That's if there's any time left for woodworking after all this fettling, flattening, honing, polishing.......... :shock:

Paul

 

[GEPPETTO]

Steve, those Arkansas stones? Flatten 'em!

What do you recommend, Alf? I've tried. But it takes for ever, and even I have a bit of a life.

Steve, who has almost finished his comp entry today!

:roll: excuse me.. I'm a newbie about the matter... but could we use siclicon carbide on a plate of glass? I do it with my inexpensive oilstones and in a while the stone is flattened. :roll:
I'm waiting your slap :lol: 8-[

gabriele

 

[Paul Chapman]

How about this as an approach towards achieving that perfect edge.

I would compare these debates to those I found in my days of black & white photography, where there were endless discussions about how to produce the perfect print.

You would find that two photographers would use the same camera, the same film, the same exposure, the same developer, the same paper and the results were - different :shock: :?

The reasons invariably came down to:

1. All the variables (you try to find two "officially certified" thermometers that give the same reading :? )

2. Sloppy technique

3. The person producing the inferior print didn't actually know what a good print looked like - so how could he know what he was striving for :?

Using this analogy, the approach I am going to adopt in my quest for the perfect edge is:

1. Find out what a perfect edge looks like so you know what you are trying to achieve. I've already done this by visiting the Clifton stand at Ally Pally and looking at theirs. Blimey, their blades were better than my shaving mirror :shock:

2. Speak to them and ask how they got those results (they were very helpful and not wedded to any one method - for example, if you don't like using water they will tell you how to achieve the same result using oil). They are also happy to demonstrate their technique.

3. Read all the views expressed on forums such as this.

4. Decide on a method and technique that you feel you will be happy with.

5. Standardise your working methods so as to remove all the variables.

6. Stick with it until you achieve the result you were after in 1 above.

Sounds simple enough - I hope it works :? :?

Paul

 

[Alf]

:roll: excuse me.. I'm a newbie about the matter... but could we use siclicon carbide on a plate of glass? I do it with my inexpensive oilstones and in a while the stone is flattened. :roll:
I'm waiting your slap :lol: 8-[

Gabriele, no slap ; it was what I was going to say.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Nads]

Thanks guys, loads of great advise as always!

I think I might just stick to my waterstones, for a while………..Although now I purchased new planes with A2 blades, will the sharpening process take that much longer? And will my waterstones be up to it, without taking eternity to sharpen them? I’ve currently got the Ice bear kit from Axminster, which consists of 800 and 6000, grit stones! Or would a diamond stone help to reduce sharpening time on the A2 blades? :?

Cheers

Nads

 

[GEPPETTO]

:roll: excuse me.. I'm a newbie about the matter... but could we use siclicon carbide on a plate of glass? I do it with my inexpensive oilstones and in a while the stone is flattened. :roll:
I'm waiting your slap :lol: 8-[

Gabriele, no slap ; it was what I was going to say.

Cheers, Alf

Only to reinforce silicon carbide property I'll say I tried that powder for flattening plane sole.. WOW it's so quick to do it compare to SC paper.

Cheers, Gabriele

 

[bugbear]

Ps I also use a record honing guide for all of it

You mean the one with the captive ball bearing? I have never found a used one where the ball wasn't jammed and/or faceted to ****.

You mean you're actually making the thing WORK?!

BugBear

(who does have a Record guide of this type in good condition, but then it's never been used, meep, meep)

 

[ydb1md]

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what you use, just stick to one way and get good at it!

Cheers
Steve

Bingo !

ccasion5:

 

[Philly]

Nads
Your waterstones are perfect for sharpening A2 steel-it shouldn't take long to sharpen them to a razor edge.
Philly