Record TS200C vs Charnwood W650 vs Jet JTS-600

[timbly]

Any thoughts on the following table saws – I'm looking for something with a small footprint and not too heavy for moving around a tight workspace;
1. Record TS200C
pros; small footprint, lightweight with wheel set, should be good for ripping, mostly good reviews.
Cons; doubtful about quality and capacity of crosscutting carriage and general quality of Record construction).
2. Charnwood W650
pros; lightweight'ish, crosscutting carriage looks an improvement on the Record, powerful, extensions included in price.
cons; can't find any reviews and have no experience of Charnwood kit.
3. Jet JTS-600
pros; lightweight'ish, sliding table with outrigger!, powerful, Jet kit seems to have a good reputation.
cons; £300 more than Record, can't find any reviews)

If I had the space I think I'd get the much loved 10" SIP but I think my choice is limited to something smaller, lighter and easier to move around.
I've got a good quality mitre saw and am considering a festool plunge saw with guide rail for panels so table saw crosscutting abilities may be a red herring..

Thoughts and suggestions on any of the above much appreciated.
Thanks
Tim

 

[wizer]

Calling WoodBloke...?

Who has these three on his short list I believe?

For me, personally, none of them. It just depends on whether you will make good use out of the sliding table. For me, I'd prefer an old Startrite\Wadkin or a new SIP 01332.

 

[cerdeira]

Hi.

If you have the money go for the Jet. It has a proper sliding table running right beside the blade. That improves accuracy and lets you cross cut small pieces, as well as ripping waney edge boards (limited to the length of the carriage of course)

 

[OPJ]

I think Andy King's reviewing the Charnwood saw in the next issue of Good Woodworking (one month from now). I appreciate that you'd probably rather not have to wait that long so, hopefully, Woodbloke might buy one fairly soon...???

 

[woodbloke]

Calling WoodBloke...?

Who has these three on his short list I believe?

For me, personally, none of them. It just depends on whether you will make good use out of the sliding table. For me, I'd prefer an old Startrite\Wadkin or a new SIP 01332.

You called? :lol:

I've looked carefully at the specs of all of these machines and have had a close eyeball at the Record and Charnwood, but not the Jet.
First and foremost, size and weight (I have a suspended floor in the 'shop) are an issue. All three fall into the correct weight bracket (the SIP and Ax machines are 100Kg heavier) and I wanted something with a slider. The Record is (in my view anyway) a decent enough machine but they've forgotten to add a sliding table...a bit like building a piece of furniture and missing one of the legs!
I had (along with Tom) a good look at the new Charnwood W650 at Yandles and for me it ticks all the boxes (the crown guard is rubbish though) Small footprint, good sized ci tables, slider the same as my old K419, 2.2Kw induction motor, 10" blade and a decent fence with micro-adjustment,
I've spent a long time pondering over the merits of various saws (the Jet btw is quite large) and was instantly taken with the W650, so I'll be ordering one later on. The other thing I intend to do is to build the router table into the right hand extension table on the W650 which will further free up room in my 'shop...difficult on the Ax 'cos it's cast iron - Rob

 

[Mr Ed]

I have always been a bit dubious of the quality of Charnwood stuff from the little I've seen, but I assume you've satisfied yourself on that Rob?

Ed

 

[markwuzere]

I have always been a bit dubious of the quality of Charnwood stuff from the little I've seen, but I assume you've satisfied yourself on that Rob?

Ed

Have to agree the firm i work for bought a little charnwood w614 as a site saw, yes it was cheap and you can't expect much from them, but the build quality was the worst i've seen and it wouldn't cut 18mm mdf without a struggle and that was after i put in a decent blade, its been sat in a store room for over a year coz no one will use it, maybe there up market stuff is better, but me personally wouldn't touch them, Mark

 

[woodbloke]

I have always been a bit dubious of the quality of Charnwood stuff from the little I've seen, but I assume you've satisfied yourself on that Rob?

Ed

The build quality appeared equal to or possibly better than an SIP that was 20' away from it at Yandles and I saw both over a period of an hour or so. This was not a site saw with a pressed steel top and lightweight fittings, the main tables were cast iron. It was certainly built to the same sort of standard as the Record which was again one of the ones I had a look at and which has received very good reviews in the press despite a somewhat negative press hereabouts...certainly better than my K419 which I owned for 10 years
In fact, the Charnwood is only a tad less expensive than the one you purchased from Axminster.
It would be interesting to see Andy K's evaluation of the saw later on in the press, but I suspect that his views may well confirm my own.
If not, then I'll have to have yet another re-thunk :roll: - Rob

 

[Chems]

The Charnwood does look good, their other stuff is stocked at my local Woodworking centre and its very fisher price but this new saw looks good. Decent slider too, nice and compact doesn't take up all the world.

I have to say, looking at it, the fence, the hold down, and the outer none CI tables wouldn't stand up for ever would be my worry. But we will only find out once someone has been using it for a good while.

I don't think honestly its comparable to the others mentioned, the Jet is much more of a machine and the record is more of a cross between site saw and cabinet saw not a true cabinet saw like the SIP or Jet.

I think for the £700 price and for light hobby use the Charnwood would be pretty great cross-over.

 

[big soft moose]

just to mention theres a kity 619 on ebay (currently no bids at £625) (170484078895) - which might be an alternative to the saws currently under contemplation

 

[woodbloke]

Jet UK sent me a detailed floor plan of the JTS 600. The slider is arguably a better arrangement than the W650 (being right next to the blade) but in practice in my 'shop, the Jet would need to be shunted over to the left to clear the take off table. The long outrigger arm (1.384m) would then only just clear the left hand side of the 'shop and would scupper my carefully laid plans for equipment repositioning. If my 'shop was a metre wider then the Jet would be ideal.

You can see in the pic that the Jet slider would have to run past the left hand side of the take off table. I could of course move the take-off table over towards the bench, but that would then only leave me around 400mmish in front which ain't enough.

As it is, the Charnwood W650 is 'Trade' rated, so a user could expect it to take moderate abuse...I think it would certainly stand up to the 'Light Hobby' usage that I'd subject it to. The actual slider is a direct lift off the original Kity design that I had on the 419 and works very well, but the sliding table mounting brackets are much, much better than the Kity making it easier to position it dead flat to the main table. The overall width of the W650 is only about 1.5m (if memory serves) so it's even a little smaller (I think) than my old Kity, but with a bigger main table, mainly because the rhs extension table is smaller.
As I said, I'd be very interested to see what Andy King makes of it before I make a 100% firm commitment - Rob

 

[andy king]

Hi Rob,

Sorry for not spotting this thread earlier, I don't visit this section of the forum very often - there are many who make certain comments on magazines and reviews/reviewers in general, so I tend not to bother offering advice or opinion any more.
But, the saw is certainly a nice machine. Definitely a step up from the earlier offerings that Charnwood and others had sourced from China in the past.
As you mention, the carriage is similar/idendical to a Kity 419, but the brackets are better than the Kity, and easier for adjustment to the table.
The carriage rail is slightly shorter than my own 419, but Charnwood are offering a longer rail at some stage, if not already.
Power is a concern on my 419, it struggles with 50mm stock, but ripping 70mm on the Charnwood was no problem, even with the blade in the demo model that had been around the block a bit.
Dust extraction is similar to the Kity though - hooked up to a bag extractor it seemed to do pretty well, but moving the saw to look at another machine, there was a little pile built up on the floor that had dropped through. At least it allows it to drop through, my Kity tends to store it up inside. Ideal for any passing hamster looking for somewhere to stay I suppose!
I'm never overly concerned about crown guards unless they are really bad. Plastic ones are used pretty well everywhere, budget through to higher end, and it adjusts and holds well, plus comes away easily for blade swaps, so it serves its purpose.
Anyway, hopefully, if the retail models perform as well as the demo model and remain durable under day to day running it should be a good small saw with good capacities.
It rips to 610, so economical for sheet stock as well.
It actually has a smaller footprint than the Kity 419 as well, although the Kity rips to about 720mm iirc.
Hope this helps...

cheers,
Andy

PS. Forgot to add that the adjusters are sweet and fluid as well, plus, although tucked under the table as on the Kity, the power switch is maybe better situated on the right so that you can hit the button and then slide the work along to the fence, and it's better for xcut work as well.

 

[woodbloke]

Andy, many thanks indeed for that assessment. It's nice to see that my initial thoughts about the W650 have been confirmed by yourself. I didn't have a chance to ask the guy at Yandles about the extraction system...my old K419's was truly diabolical until I fitted a hopper at the bottom.
As I said earlier (and also to Nick Gibbs the other day) once the merits of this machine are appreciated, it may well become the bench mark saw for smaller 'shops...but, I hasten to add, no slot(s) for jig users. That feature doesn't worry me as I never use tablesaur jigs anyway - Rob

 

[OPJ]

It's interesting that the NVR switch is on the right - I was watching an old episode of the New Yankee Workshop last night and noticed that, on the saw Norm uses, it's in a similar location - we've also seen him struggle on the odd occasion, where he's wanting to rip a large sheet of ply!

I guess you could move it quite easily though, if it really became a pain. Could just mean fitting a longer length of wire/flex/whatever(?).

 

[woodbloke]

I guess you could move it quite easily though, if it really became a pain. Could just mean fitting a longer length of wire/flex/whatever(?).

I wouldn't have thought that it'd be insurmountable Olly...as you say, the inclusion of a longer bit of cable - Rob