Bojam
Established Member
Would anyone be willing to pay a premium for a machine/tool on the basis that it carried a "Made in Britain" label I wonder?
Record Power join the Made in Britain organisation
- Thread starter Sachakins
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okeydokey
Established Member
Sign me up for a Factory Tour, when Ive been I will report my findings
Ollie78
Established Member
I don't really care where its made as long as its made well.
I think we should bring more manufacturing back to the UK, it would be good for the economy and employment and reduce our reliance on China.
I would be prepared to pay a little extra for something made here but only if its good quality. Not if its British Leyland quality...
Ollie
I think we should bring more manufacturing back to the UK, it would be good for the economy and employment and reduce our reliance on China.
I would be prepared to pay a little extra for something made here but only if its good quality. Not if its British Leyland quality...
Ollie
Bojam
Established Member
Totally agree. Just wondering how feasible this is in the context of today's global economy. I mean, there's a reason why British manufacturing declined and so much production became centred in the East. Are things starting to change (and, if so, why)?
porker
Established Member
I see Axminster Tools are also a member
Bojam
Established Member
Interesting. I believe that all the UJK stuff is manufactured in the UK (correct me if I'm wrong). But their machinery is mostly/all from the Far East. So can they apply this label to just a subset of their branded products?
pretty sure you can - and it seems logical...
if you had to make everything in the UK then no-one would find it easy to be a member other than the various home-working craft companies who sell on facebook and etsy! as long as a specific item is made in the UK, then why not share that... presumably though product A being made in the UK doesn't allow you to claim the same for all your other products!
Bojam
Established Member
Interesting discussion about reshoring and shortening supply chains here on the Made in Britain website.
Apparently a possible trend towards "reshoring" manufacturing in the UK is being driven by a number of factors including (1) rising container shipping rates from China, (2) rising Chinese labour costs, (3) Brexit and the fact that trade deals have not yet been finalised (meaning a lot of uncertainty), (4) the effects of the Pandemic on supply chains, etc.
There are however a range of potential barriers to reshoring, most obviously cost or, at least, perceived cost. Procuring materials, establishing facilities, training/up-skilling workers, etc. The cost of starting over again after having invested a lot in organising the production of goods overseas can be seen as prohibitive.
Apparently a possible trend towards "reshoring" manufacturing in the UK is being driven by a number of factors including (1) rising container shipping rates from China, (2) rising Chinese labour costs, (3) Brexit and the fact that trade deals have not yet been finalised (meaning a lot of uncertainty), (4) the effects of the Pandemic on supply chains, etc.
There are however a range of potential barriers to reshoring, most obviously cost or, at least, perceived cost. Procuring materials, establishing facilities, training/up-skilling workers, etc. The cost of starting over again after having invested a lot in organising the production of goods overseas can be seen as prohibitive.
Bojam
Established Member
Makes sense but depending on how the labelling is used could be a bit disengenous - i.e. X company advertising that they are now part of the 'Made in Britain' organisation but then importing most of the products they sell under their brand and making just a few bits and bobs in house.
It is also worth remembering that there are a number of different factors in play - transport costs / local workforce costs / etc. are only a part of it - managing manufacturing is much harder remotely and with translation issues - my first business which did R&D -> manufacturing of safety kit in the equestrian world, we had to go out to the far east to ensure accuracy, doing it remotely just did not work. Often manufacturing abroad adds in management overhead and costs. Speed to market is faster if manufactured locally. There is more of a shift to rapid prototyping and development capability in the local sphere, either in-house or in the area (we have just built a website for a German company who are setting up a digital factory based on 3D printing). There is a start to and I would predict a forthcoming surge in the need to repair kit more - currently, if you manufacture in China as cheaply as possible, often you just replace warranty claims rather than repairing them - but if we get a legislative requirement to repair, manufacturing businesses will need to have a local option to repair...
many reasons more I am sure why the pattern could change...
many reasons more I am sure why the pattern could change...
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Not an engineer but spent a large part of my career in engineering and manufacturing. More questions and thoughts rather than answers:
Labour costs were a major part of total costs and why manufacturing moved offshore - particularly in the 1990s when Far East labour costs were so cheap.
Time moves on and labour input has been very substantially replaced by automated digital machinery. The machines (very broadly) cost much the same the world over. The key skills may now be in design, IT sales and marketing, engineering specialists but not skilled "machinists".
- manufactured in the UK does not mean 100%. Some components may be sourced overseas and assembled in the UK.
- labour costs in China have risen significantly for several years - still cheaper than UK but difference not so compelling
- logistical complexity & shipping costs - it is much easier to respond to changing customer demand with shorter lead times from a 100 miles than several '000
- rather than doing all in house, Record may simply subcontract to other UK component manufacturers - needs more limited investment on their part.
- I would assume that even with sourcing overseas that they would have retained the intellectual property in the designs.
Labour costs were a major part of total costs and why manufacturing moved offshore - particularly in the 1990s when Far East labour costs were so cheap.
Time moves on and labour input has been very substantially replaced by automated digital machinery. The machines (very broadly) cost much the same the world over. The key skills may now be in design, IT sales and marketing, engineering specialists but not skilled "machinists".
So extractors and turning tools only,* everything else still likely to be made in China.
It's probably a bit like fairtrade chocolate. Cadbury for example can list as their products being fairtrade, but the reality there is only a tiny proportion of fairtrade chocolate can be part of any and not all of their products. An entire chocolate bar needs not be entirely made from, fairtrade chocolate, only a small, likely tiny percentage of it. If they make a ton of product, and 1% is fairtrade, the entire batch is fairtrade.
There was an exclusive about it on a bit back highlighting the , for an effective word - SCAM.
(I expectt the same will apply here. RP can list itself as part of this ideal, but only a small number of the products they sell need be made in the UK, the rest can come from wherever, and will all likely carry a Union Jack sticker, and a little note about RP being a made in the UK company, even if the bandsaw those stickers are attached to came entirely from China.
* Where those companies making the turning tools and extractors buy their components from in order to manufacturer them,you will find probably isnt entirely the UK.
For those of us who ride bikes, this is an example of what we wish RP should be set up as, though there I accept the investment for RP to entirely make their products from UK components to making the components themselves would be massive.
Hope Technology.
You will find that 95% of their entire stock is made in the UK( Barnoldswick, England) by Hope themselves, with only things like the raw material - Alloy, coming in from outside. Rims as far as im aware come from Taiwan, as well as the actual things like LED lightbulbs,
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When I bought my record lathe 2017, a demonstrator from Record Power, indicated that whilst much of their products were made off shore, there was a serious desire to bring much of the manufacturing back to the UK over time.
At the time, a fair amount was made in the UK, my herald coronet was not, mores the pity, although the quality and build spec’ on mine has proved good. At the time, a couple of us wondered if bringing more of their manufacturing into the UK would actually happen, but maybe this has started to gain traction.
At the time, a fair amount was made in the UK, my herald coronet was not, mores the pity, although the quality and build spec’ on mine has proved good. At the time, a couple of us wondered if bringing more of their manufacturing into the UK would actually happen, but maybe this has started to gain traction.
TheTiddles
Established Member
All the people with a manufacturing background are busy manufacturing on a Thursday afternoon!
Bojam
Established Member
Richard_C
Established Member
I did some HR consultancy (thats what I did until I almost retired last year) for a company that manufactured in China and was bringing it all back here about 6 years ago. A lot depends on volumes and predicatbility. They made mostly for retail and demand varied a lot with 'house fashion' (whatever that is.) China was inexpensive, but needed long lead times and binding orders. That meant over ordering and then having 'remaindered' stock that got sold through outlets at no profit, and going out of stock of the most popular stuff so losing sales opportunities. Bringing it back here meant each item cost a bit more to make but it was much easier to make what you wanted when you wanted. Red ones selling well blue ones not, so make more red ones, not oh dear we ordered 100,000 of each now we can't meet demand and have a warehouse full of blue ones.
Record might have worked out the same thing - easier to flex with demand so end to end total profit is better even though each item might cost a bit more to make. Stock levels can be lower. Financial Risk is lower.
Remember interest rates for business are very low, might be a very good time for capital spending.
Record might have worked out the same thing - easier to flex with demand so end to end total profit is better even though each item might cost a bit more to make. Stock levels can be lower. Financial Risk is lower.
Remember interest rates for business are very low, might be a very good time for capital spending.
user22161
Established Member
Depends on what the premium is. If the cost of transport, shipping agents, tariffs etc are taken out of the overhead, that will give manufacturers a bit more leeway and assembling simple machines like band saws doesn't need skilled labour.
I would prefer to pay a little extra if parts would be available instead of finding (as is often the case) that later production runs had been modified so no parts available for machines in an earlier batch. Seems many Chinese manufacturers couldn't care less about after sales service.
RobinBHM
Established Member
I've seen reports that some manufacturers have been able to compete with Chinese pricing and win UK customers.
But this is in high end engineering where loads of automation with huge capital investment has lowered labour cost.
The West have for decades been chasing cheap labour markets of emerging companies....and it's still impossible to compete with Chinese labour rates in UK.
My guess is China has almost no workers rights or health and safety......anybody remember the term "Level Playing Field" ....it can't exist with China vs UK
That’s probably more than they expect. Assembling from finished components is usually enough to qualify for this type of scheme. With your definition it would exclude just about all electronic and electrical products.
From their facebook account :
We are delighted to announce that we will now feature the prestigious Made in Britain mark across our range of turning tools and CamVac dust extractors.
Our increase in UK manufacturing is part of a long-term initiative to expand our portfolio of unique and exclusive products. Recent significant investment has allowed further expansion of our production department - which is now the largest in the company - to give us the ability to competitively manufacture a much wider range of products.
Learn more here: https://bit.ly/3eZMI4r
Looks like it concerns only the tools and camvac, which are already made in UK. The machinery will most probably still be made in China.
We are delighted to announce that we will now feature the prestigious Made in Britain mark across our range of turning tools and CamVac dust extractors.
Our increase in UK manufacturing is part of a long-term initiative to expand our portfolio of unique and exclusive products. Recent significant investment has allowed further expansion of our production department - which is now the largest in the company - to give us the ability to competitively manufacture a much wider range of products.
Learn more here: https://bit.ly/3eZMI4r
Looks like it concerns only the tools and camvac, which are already made in UK. The machinery will most probably still be made in China.
