Record no5 Jack Plane - restoration

[JangoTrooper]

Hi, I picked up my Dad's jack plane. I've wiped and cleaned the metal parts with 3 in 1 oil.

Sanded the sole of the foot along with the sides of the jack plane.

I also sanded the handles down to expose a beech handle.

Would the handles been stained and varnished in the past?

I am however missing I guess a brass screw for the main wooden back handle. Its the lower screw of the two. Does anybody know type of thread the screw followed by size and type of screw? I believe it's Whitworth thread. I need to procure this correct screw.

Knowledge of the age of the tool would be nice on a history point of view.

Thanks in advance if anyone could help on this.

 

[JangoTrooper]

I'm having troubles uploading pictures from my onto this forum. Files are too big in size it states. Looking at the pictures they are at least 5mb in size.

 

[Stan]

To help date your plane, please provide a photo of the front of the frog along with the lateral adjustment lever, and another of any transfers/decals.

 

[jcassidy]

I'm having troubles uploading pictures from my onto this forum. Files are too big in size it states. Looking at the pictures they are at least 5mb in size.

Save you photos to your PC, open them in Paint (assuming you have windows), resize them to max 1200px wide and save. they'll go down to about 240k ....

 

[Jacob]

You mean the little one - it won't be brass.Probably got one in a box I'll have a look later, just going out - for second *** in fact!

 

[Jacob]

Got a little bolt to fit the back handle - same thread but not the dome head. You are welcome to it - send PM

 

[JangoTrooper]

Picture attempt number 2. This is some of the latest work at the moment.

 

[JangoTrooper]

Hopefully the front picture of the frog shows enough evidence to age of he tool.

Would the back and front handles be varnished or stained in the past? I guess it’s a brown stain, anyone have thoughts on this. I noticed the handles had sheen finish chipping away.

 

[JangoTrooper]

Looking online for similar jack planes the lower screw on the back handle doesn’t seem to be brass.

Does anyone know what the thread is?

 

[JangoTrooper]

Looking at the website, findmytool.
http://www.findmytool.co.uk/record-jack-plane-t5-review.php
I sadly had to sand back what was left of the label of the handle but it did resemble that of 60s-70s design. Can these labels be purchased anywhere?

Keen to get this jack plane the way it was in its former glory. Plus plane properly too.

Having some difficulty with sharpening the blade back. There were nicks in the blade which I sanded out but trying to establish the 35 degree angle properly and equal is time consuming. I recently borrow some harsher diamond stones, 180 and 240 grit. I have ordered some more aggressive diamond stones as oppose to well use cheaper diamond stones. Going as low as 120 grit.

 

[Stan]

Your plane is looking good.

There is an awesome resource for dating record planes at

https://recordhandplanes.com/dating.html
Using this resource, the frog and lateral adjustment lever put your plane at 1959 to 1988. The two-part pressed steel Y yoke puts it at the late 60's onwards. From the link you might be able to date other parts of the plane, narrowing down the overall manufacture date.

From the few planes I have dated, I have found occasional anomalies. This has shown me that I cannot always assume 100% that a plane I have now is all from one era. I have a Marples 4 1/2 ( in another thread ) that has been cobbled together in 1944 from old and then-current parts. I have others where it looks like a previous workman has extended the life of the tool using a part salvaged from something else. Looking at the prices of planes from those times, you can see why this was done.

 

[Jacob]

.....trying to establish the 35 degree angle properly .....

Should be 25º to 30º

 

[planesleuth]

Never use 3 in 1 oil ....any oil...on any plane...it gets on your work and ruins it. If its going to sit for a while, beeswax it. The sides have to be true to the sole so if you are going to sand it watch out how much you sand it. If you are going to sell it on ..you should have left the remains of the decal on, you just devalued it by 50%. They are water transfers below the varnish, easy to make but hard to set on the handle.. also that is fraud cos it ain't original. Post war Beech handled Record planes are inferior to Pre war Rosewood handled planes. If you purchased one and compared it to the post war one, you would understand the sentiment. Purchasing good quality vintage planes is a mine field because they are the most heavily abused tool...by old men in sheds who feel they have nothing better to do than 'refurbish planes' . H*** I have seen so many ruined.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Never use 3 in 1 oil ....any oil...on any plane...it gets on your work and ruins it. If its going to sit for a while, beeswax it. .....

Paul Sellers (and I!) get away with 3in1 just fine....

 

[Jacob]

Never use 3 in 1 oil ....any oil...on any plane...it gets on your work and ruins it......

No it doesn't! But if worried about it just wipe down the plane. Sort of normal anyway before you use it - you don't know where it's been!
In any case anything which gets wiped on to the wood is going to get planed off with the next pass.

..... The sides have to be true to the sole......

No they don't! If using a shooting board you set the blade tilt with the lever, otherwise it doesn't matter at all.

 

[D_W]

Never use 3 in 1 oil ....any oil...on any plane...it gets on your work and ruins it. If its going to sit for a while, beeswax it. The sides have to be true to the sole so if you are going to sand it watch out how much you sand it. If you are going to sell it on ..you should have left the remains of the decal on, you just devalued it by 50%. They are water transfers below the varnish, easy to make but hard to set on the handle.. also that is fraud cos it ain't original. Post war Beech handled Record planes are inferior to Pre war Rosewood handled planes. If you purchased one and compared it to the post war one, you would understand the sentiment. Purchasing good quality vintage planes is a mine field because they are the most heavily abused tool...by old men in sheds who feel they have nothing better to do than 'refurbish planes' . H*** I have seen so many ruined.

This is a bit heavy handed. I've found the later stanley types with a belt sanded frog and a looser larger adjuster wheel better for actual use. Those also have beech handles. I guess I've had record of each type, too, and never noticed a difference (never had anything new enough that it would have webbing on the casting, though).

I suppose someone could lap a plane further out of square, but they're not usually that square to start with. if making them square is important, it's wise to have an engineer's square and know how to draw file as hand lapping for squareness probably won't work out that well.

It's true that the older planes with little use, perfect wood and a fresh looking decal will bring more, but the market for everything else went to users long ago, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a generation of decal collectors die off leaving less than stellar values for perfect planes (at least compared to someone investing in stocks). Nonetheless, when someone wants to pay $175 for a stanley 4 over here because it's not been used, we let them.

as far as 3 in 1 goes, if a plane is dripping with it, it can penetrate into the wood (so can mineral oil - 3 in one is probably just unrefined petroleum oi vs. food safe mineral oil being far more pure and having stinky impurities removed). All of them will penetrate into wood if allowed to sit, as will the flower oils with japanese print.

Agree on the beeswax - a 50/50 mix of oil and wax leaves more on the plane longer term - if a plane still rusts without being seen, it's not being used enough.

 

[Stan]

Purchasing good quality vintage planes is a mine field because they are the most heavily abused tool...by old men in sheds who feel they have nothing better to do than 'refurbish planes' . H*** I have seen so many ruined.

In what ways have they been ruined? I would be interested to learn more.

 

[Bm101]

They are water transfers below the varnish, easy to make but hard to set on the handle.. also that is fraud cos it ain't original.

It's only fraud if you are selling them fraudulantly surely?
If the man wants a decal on his plane to sell it on as original he's probably already know about sources like this. record plane decals | eBay
It's hardly buying AK 47's or human organs on the dark web now is it?
If someone wants to put a decal on a plane they are doing up to keep and use, good luck to them. They are tools and still plentiful in most sizes in the UK.
Personally it's not my choice to 'bling' a plane but that's not my decision is it?
Or are we going to send the rozzers round to the vintage car fairs and get them to rough the old fellas up for restoring old cars too?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Looking online for similar jack planes the lower screw on the back handle doesn’t seem to be brass.

Does anyone know what the thread is?

I've measured a couple of mine, confirming my suspicion that, like most Stanley and Record plane threads, it's an odd one - 0.212" diameter by 20 tpi. I don't know what threadform, but the small screw holding the leading end of the rear handle is 1/2" long, round head.

The best bet is an E-bay search for 'Record Plane Spares' or 'Stanley Plane Spares'. That, or a friendly model engineering friend with a screwcutting lathe.

 

[Jacob]

Same thread as bolts holding down the frog but different slotted head - on my planes at least! Can send the OP one if he wants. Will do the job.