Record 077A plane.

[garywayne]

I was on my weekly tour of the local car-boot sale, and I came across a Record 077A plane, It's the one with the detachable nose. It had a price of £20.00. It looked in quite good condition.

1)Is it worth £20.00?
2)Can you still get replacement blades?

I have looked on the net, and seen prices of between £60.00 to £99.00, which made me think I had found a bargain. Then on e-bay there was one going for a quid, another for £5.00.

I must admit, I would rather buy the one from the car-boot if it's worth it, as I can see that one. As for the ones on ebay, you just don't know what your getting do you.

 

[Alf]

Record 077A plane

1)Is it worth £20.00?

Yes

2)Can you still get replacement blades?

Yes <- Link

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

If you order a Ray Isles blade, try to make sure you get the Record blade, not the (very similar) Preston blade.

Surprisingly, the Preston blade is much thinner, although it will fit.

Words from the wise; the Clifton equivalent won't fit - it's too thick.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Then on e-bay there was one going for a quid, another for £5.00.

Neither has sold yet, if you mean the current ones.

The cheap one has NO lever cap - useful only for spares. Might be a source of a blade. It appears to have a long-ish blade (ask the vendor?)

The better (complete!) one is now up to a tenner, with 2 days to go. It WILL go higher.

I own one of these tools, but use it rarely. Bull nose shoulder planes sound fancy ("it's a shoulder plane. *AND* it's bullnosed") but have limited areas of utility.

BugBear (who spent too much on his)

 

[garywayne]

Thanks for your reply, Alf.
I will probably buy the plane from the car-boot, and thank you for the link.

bugbear, - I am only but a novice, all I have is a bit of common sense, and you lot.

I thought some sort of shoulder / rebate plane would be useful for shaving tenons and shoulders and the like, and with a detachable nose so the blade can go right to the edge.

If there is a better option, please tell, bearing in mind I can only just afford the £20.00 plane, and will have to save for a new blade.

Thanks for the advice on the blades.

All the best, Gary.

 

[Adam]

I bought one of these for £45 or £50 (can't quite remember). So sounds a good price. Is the blade damaged? I've had no problems using the "standard" blade which came with mine.

Adam

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Gary

The question is why you would want a bullnose plane? As Bugbear said, they have limited usefulness. Some think that they can be used as shoulder plane, but they are really quite poor in this regard (they lack the nose for registering the plane). Their intended use is to make stopped dados. I suppose that they can be used as a small block plane (but really they are very much narrower than a true block plane).

As good a bargain as it may sound, you could better spend your 20 quid on a plane that you actually would use regularly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

As good a bargain as it may sound

Of course, the car boot 077 could be bought (for no more than 18, if the asking is 20), cleaned, sold at a profit on Ebay, and the money used to buy a more useful plane ;-)

BugBear

 

[Alf]

The question is why you would want a bullnose plane?

<Warning! User Error. Query does not compute. Slope runtime error. Unsaved Slope greasing will be lost. Reboot from The Handplane Book>

 

[garywayne]

Hi All,

As I am looking for a hand plane to clean up tenon checks, shoulders, rebates, and dado's, and the like.
What would be the plane of your choice?

This is what I have so far:-

1/ Record 0120 block plane. (6 7/8").
2/ Stanley SB3. (8 3/8") Not used.
3/ Acorn No.4. (9 1/4").
4/ PM No.10. (10"). Sorry, I forgot the name. It has a very short blade that goes right to the outside edge of the plane.
5/ Hilka No.4. (9 7/8"). rubbish engineering.
6/ Record T5. (12 3/4"). Nice plane. £15.00 car-boot.

So what would be a more useful one?
I'm getting the impression that this plane is a bad investment.

I would also like a jointing plane No.7 or 8, but that's out of my reach at present.

Would someone please explain the pros and cons of the low angle and standard angle plane angles.

 

[Alf]

1/ Record 0120 block plane. (6 7/8").

A #110 with depth adjustment, so my Record catalogue tells me. Any good?

2/ Stanley SB3. (8 3/8") Not used.

Very wise. However, it has potential as a scrub plane according to some.

3/ Acorn No.4. (9 1/4").

Either by Chapman or Stanley GB's secondary line after they'd acquired them. Never had one but I bet BB could comment on whether they justify any tuning effort.

4/ PM No.10. (10"). Sorry, I forgot the name. It has a very short blade that goes right to the outside edge of the plane.

Ah, one of those Paramo planemaster things or whatever they're called? Apparently rather frustrating to use.

5/ Hilka No.4. (9 7/8"). rubbish engineering.

Yep. They can be made to work, but really it's hardly worth the effort.

6/ Record T5. (12 3/4"). Nice plane. £15.00 car-boot.

Vrooooooooom... I choke in the dust of such a beautifully teed-up drive-by gloat. The pick of the lot.

So what would be a more useful one?

Depends what you're going to be making, but if it's going to be cleaning up tenons and rebates and etc then personally I'd unhesitatingly choose the LV medium shoulder. But, I have a feeling price may be the stumbling block? So, might I suggest instead of

getting the impression that this plane is a bad investment.

you start to look on it as a good investment that you sell on for a good profit towards a shoulder plane. And then maybe look out for an unremarkable but useable craftsman-made infill shoulder plane, which can sometimes be had for sensible prices if you're fortunate. Or talk to Peter Maddex about making your own... Or you might get lucky on a Stanley 9X series and find one that actually works I suppose.

I would also like a jointing plane No.7 or 8, but that's out of my reach at present.

How d'you feel about wooden planes? A wooden jointer can be had cheaply, or again, you could make your own.

Would someone please explain the pros and cons of the low angle and standard angle plane angles.

You're thinking of block planes I assume? Standard angle gives a more robust blade bed with less likelihood of damage to the rear of the mouth (which used to be an issue before modern materials). Low angle gives you greater flexibility of angles depending on the bevel angle you use on the blade, a lower profile plane to hold and is generally a more useful type all round.

Cheers, Alf

 

[garywayne]

Alf,
I don't know what a 110 is.
My 0120 does have blade adjustment, and in my opinion is quite good, as long as you have a sharp blade. There again, I have nothing to compare it against.

What is a scrub plane?
I don't use the SB3 because it's to fiddly to set up and adjust.

I do have a wooden plane, 17" by 2 3/4" wide, with a blade of 2". I like to use it when I can, I am still learning how to adjust the blade more accurately. I am still trying to plane or joint an edge properly. They never seem to be level. My thinking is the longer the better, or leveler.

Thanks for your knowledge and advice Alf.

Regards, Gary.

 

[Alf]

I don't know what a 110 is.

Yeah you do. It's like a 0120 but without the depth adjuster :wink: (and by Stanley, come to think of it, 'cos it'd be a 0110 if it was a Record... :-k ). I only threw that reference in for those folks who might know off-hand about a 120, but not its adjusting brother, but here's one. Heck, I had to look up the 0120...

My 0120 does have blade adjustment, and in my opinion is quite good, as long as you have a sharp blade.

Ooo, what am I sitting here pontificating for? You obviously already know the important bit.

What is a scrub plane?

Tsk, not a fan of the reviews then? :lol:

I don't use the SB3 because it's to fiddly to set up and adjust.

Not an issue with a scrub, which could explain the recommendation... :roll:

I do have a wooden plane, 17" by 2 3/4" wide, with a blade of 2". I like to use it when I can, I am still learning how to adjust the blade more accurately.

Good for you. Personally I hardly ever have the patience. Oh, and that's a jack, btw.

I am still trying to plane or joint an edge properly. They never seem to be level. My thinking is the longer the better, or leveler.

Within reason, yep. Me, I like using a jack for jointing 'cos most of the boards I joint are short. When you say level, are you meaning straight in length, or square in width? Or both? And are you using a cambered (slightly rounded) blade edge, or a straight one? If you want to go the former way like right-thinking folks do (e.g. DC, Jeff Gorman and me :wink: ) then I can pontificate further. If you want to use a straight edge then I suggest investigating simple jointer fence solutions like this one (hope you don't mind, Chris - it was handy )

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Gary,
As Alf mentioned earlier, your T5 is the plane where you should invest your time. As an alternative, you could probably sell your T5 on ebay and get enough to buy a #5 and a #7 with the proceeds.
Alf also mentioned using camber in your plane blades. I just want to emphasize that blade camber is one of the most important things to make a plane work properly. Sadly, it is too often glossed over when discussing sharpening.
I know Popular Woodworking is a bit of a sore point for my friends on that side of the pond but the latest issue has a great article by David Charlesworth on the subject of how to camber a blade during sharpening.
The same issue has another excellent article by Adam Cherubini on classifying planes. This article helps to understand the relationship between various planes. I'm hoping this article will help Alf to understand that she is mistaking a trying plane (a longer plane with a cambered edge that is used to make an edge straight and square which belongs in the leveling plane family) with a jointer plane (a long plane with a straight across blade that is used to prepare the edge joint and belongs in the fitting plane family). :lol:
For the record, the try plane/jointer plane thing is a running joke between Alf and me. It is one of the few things where my opinion differs slightly from hers.

 

[Alf]

the latest issue has a great article by David Charlesworth on the subject of how to camber a blade during sharpening.

Or his first DVD, if you like the "see it done before your wondering eyes" option.

The same issue has another excellent article by Adam Cherubini on classifying planes.

I dunno, I was a bit disappointed. I need to read it again really.

This article helps to understand the relationship between various planes.

As some people see them... :wink:

I'm hoping this article will help Alf to understand that she is mistaking a trying plane (a longer plane with a cambered edge that is used to make an edge straight and square which belongs in the leveling plane family) with a jointer plane (a long plane with a straight across blade that is used to prepare the edge joint and belongs in the fitting plane family). :lol:

Tsk, just 'cos some of us have barely stepped out of the 18thC and have to make allowances for less forgiving glues... :roll: Wake up and smell the Titebond, Roger! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[garywayne]

Alf wrote:
Tsk, not a fan of the reviews then?

Slap on hand, - I really must make time to read the reviews. :roll:

Alf says:
Not an issue with a scrub, which could explain the recommendation.

#-o Now I know what a scrub plane is,(thanks to you), I can see where you're coming from.

plaining the edge level? Both, straight in length, and square in width, with a straight edge blade. I have made a fence for the T5, but it's not really deep enough. (I ought to make a new one).

I do have a cambered blade in the Paramo Planemaster thingy because they where the only ones I could find locally, (Fareham area). Haven't had a chance to use it yet, due to state of dinning room come workshop.

If you have the desire to pontificate further on cambered / straight edge blades be my guest, for I am willing to listen and learn. I thought straight edge = straight blade, or, visa versa.

Thanks Alf, I appreciate your input.

Hi, Roger,

I use the T5 more than any other plane that I have. I think it's a really nice one. (NOT FOR SALE THOUGH).

I will see if I can track down the articles you mention.

Thanks very much Roger.

Regards, Gary.

 

[froglet]

Can I second the pontification thing Alf (I think you should take it as read that we want you to pontificate unless told otherwise) as having seen DC's sharpening video its annoying that he makes the statement that you can't get a straight edge without a cambered blade but doesn't explain why (I suppose I should really invest in the rest of his videos to find out.)

Graeme

 

[Alf]

If you have the desire to pontificate further on cambered / straight edge blades be my guest, for I am willing to listen and learn. I thought straight edge = straight blade, or, visa versa.

Like a lamb to the slaughter...

Well start with this, a copy of this, and/or probably this (Volume 1). By and large I think the DVD is probably the most helpful, but the book, well both of them, are chocker with much valuble additional - if occasionally daunting - info. The current Pop WW covers DC's method of sharpening the cambered blade well, but is a little lighter on jointing with it. It'd probably be enough info, but the other sources are better.

S'no good me pontificating 'cos I just do what DC does (the DVD was the last fatal influence :lol: ) and he explains it better than what I do. The basic gist of how it works is in the first link from Jeff Gorman. Essentially it removes the onus on you, the poor sap pushing the plane, from having to be a genius and hold said plane absolutely square and level in order to plane a square edge - the cambered edge is not relevant to the straightness, btw. Say looking from one end along the length you've got your edge sloping like / right? Well it's an exaggeration, but you see what I mean; the right edge is higher than the left. Well with a straight blade you apparently have to balance the plane, square and level, on that high edge and plane down, square and level, until you're taking full width shavings. With a cambered blade you've effectively got three ways to take a shaving, 'cos it's kinda shaped like \__/ (exaggerated to the point of craziness). So to get the / edge like __ you'd rest the sole of your plane on the edge of the work so the left edge of the blade is doing the cutting. i.e. Making the shaving tapered so the thickest shaving is being taken over the highest point, with it feathering away to almost, or even, nothing at the lowest edge. It doesn't depend on you being able to balance the plane square on only a tiny portion of the edge, so it's much less demanding on your own sense of what's "plumb". You keep doing that 'til it's square, moving the plane sideways as required to square up the edge. Does that make any sense at all? :-s

Cheers, Alf

 

[froglet]

What a really neat idea and like all the best ideas so obvious once its explained.

Graeme

 

[garywayne]

My sentiments exactly froglet.

I knew all that really, I was just testing :^o

Thanks Alf, much appreciated.

Regards, Gary.