Rant!

[custard]

Difficult to blame people when Oak Furniture Land is selling this for under £115 including delivery. I know it's a clearance sale...but they always have a clearance sale!

http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/furni ... le/60.html

Allowing for waste there's got to be three cubic feet of oak in that item, so it would cost me about £150-160 just to source the timber for a product that they sell for £115. I appreciate it's hardly a complicated build, but even if I was all jigged up there's still over eight hours labour in it once timber preparation, sundry materials, finishing and delivery are taken into account. So I'd have to be charging at least £400 to stand even the remotest chance of covering overheads.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Difficult to blame people when Oak Furniture Land is selling this for under £115 including delivery. I know it's a clearance sale...but they always have a clearance sale!

http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/furni ... le/60.html

Allowing for waste there's got to be three cubic feet of oak in that item, so it would cost me about £150-160 just to source the timber for a product that they sell for £115. I appreciate it's hardly a complicated build, but even if I was all jigged up there's still over eight hours labour in it once timber preparation, sundry materials, finishing and delivery are taken into account. So I'd have to be charging at least £400 to stand even the remotest chance of covering overheads.

Drawing a couple of threads together here, in my working life I met one of their competitors at a free 1/2-day seminar we ran recently on Search Engine Optimization (SEO). It was fully booked.

He wanted help with his web site - selling against them. He remarked the oakfurnitureland furniture is, er, what it is, and that his stuff was far better quality, but he couldn't get customers to even look. I explained that I understood where he was coming from, and gave him a few pointers (mainly marketing, TBH, as that's the real issue, not SEO, and I'm qualified and experienced in that area), suggesting he might get back to us during the working week to discuss what we could do to help. We talked for about 20 minutes.

That was early October. Guess what's happened since.

In fact I don't think we've had a single solid sales lead from that day (3 staff + the MD, etc.), despite the usual swapping of business cards, follow-up, etc. Marketing friends have warned me, and I'm finally coming round to the settled view that anything cheap or free isn't perceived as value. If people are paying for your time, even to quote for something, it concentrates the mind in a way that's valuable for both sides.

E.

 

[rafezetter]

Difficult to blame people when Oak Furniture Land is selling this for under £115 including delivery. I know it's a clearance sale...but they always have a clearance sale!

http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/furni ... le/60.html

Allowing for waste there's got to be three cubic feet of oak in that item, so it would cost me about £150-160 just to source the timber for a product that they sell for £115. I appreciate it's hardly a complicated build, but even if I was all jigged up there's still over eight hours labour in it once timber preparation, sundry materials, finishing and delivery are taken into account. So I'd have to be charging at least £400 to stand even the remotest chance of covering overheads.

Drawing a couple of threads together here, in my working life I met one of their competitors at a free 1/2-day seminar we ran recently on Search Engine Optimization (SEO). It was fully booked.

He wanted help with his web site - selling against them. He remarked the oakfurnitureland furniture is, er, what it is, and that his stuff was far better quality, but he couldn't get customers to even look. I explained that I understood where he was coming from, and gave him a few pointers (mainly marketing, TBH, as that's the real issue, not SEO, and I'm qualified and experienced in that area), suggesting he might get back to us during the working week to discuss what we could do to help. We talked for about 20 minutes.

That was early October. Guess what's happened since.

In fact I don't think we've had a single solid sales lead from that day (3 staff + the MD, etc.), despite the usual swapping of business cards, follow-up, etc. Marketing friends have warned me, and I'm finally coming round to the settled view that anything cheap or free isn't perceived as value. If people are paying for your time, even to quote for something, it concentrates the mind in a way that's valuable for both sides.

E.

My Father had similar issues with clients coming in for advice then not doing any business with him (upper end investments / offsetting death duties and the like) so after some particularly lengthy advice sessions over a couple of weeks to one "gent" and no business from it, my Father sent him a bill for his time, which the guy refused. So my father took him to court citing that unsolicited advice from a solicitor or other professional can be billed in such manner and it was obviously implied that by going to him and getting advice from him that he would then benefit from the policies etc my Father would sell to him.... The Adjudicator agreed and increased the amount to boot!

Living with a builder I hear stories like this all the time - practically every week someone wants an additional job done for no extra cost - Dave got wise to this years ago, and said he's only doing work as per the quoted jobsheet, anything over the top can be done but for additional cost, and if the addon requires him to work past 4.00pm (even if it's started before that) it's +30% extra; and NO he can't "just pop back tomorrow" to fit it in at normal rates. He's also had to draw up a sheet that basically says if the customer wants to change anything that wasn't in the spec (for bigger extentions / reno jobs) and it causes an overrun of time, they must pay him at top day rates, and that they understand the overrun of time was of their own doing, and MAKES THEM SIGN IT.

You'd think with that attitude he'd not get many customers, but the opposite is true, it shows them his time is valuable and sought after (which it is), he's been pretty much flat out 7 days a week for the almost 8 years I've known him.

 

[Lons]

I get it all the time. The dreaded words of "while you're here can you just...". :roll: I usually say no I don't have time, unless it's to quote for an additional job. If I do any extra work then I almost always charge for it at fair rates.
I'd add that I always supply a detailed estimate of work agreed to and state that deviations or additions will be costed as extras.

Some people can't help themselvse though and I appologise if I've told the story already.
I estimated for lining the walls with polypropylene of a single garage sized building of a main 4x4 dealership as the room was used to spray underseal on vehicles.
From memory, the estimate was about £1600 to which the owner said "how much discount off that?" My reply was "that's my price take it or leave it". He insisted he must have discount so I re-worked the estimate, quoted £1800 and offered him £200 discount which he readily accepted. I said "do you realise what I've done" and he replied "yes but I had to have the discount" #-o Car dealer mentality or what? :lol:

Bob

 

[RossJarvis]

Unfortunately the World is full of people who think they can get other people to do things for nothing, in fact there is a word for them "entrepreneurs" (or successful executive officers!) and the government love them. Me, I call them parasites.

 

[MMUK]

Unfortunately the World is full of people who think they can get other people to do things for nothing, in fact there is a word for them "entrepreneurs" (or successful executive officers!) and the government love them. Me, I call them parasites.

Do you take (Alan) Sugar with that, Ross? :lol:

 

[wizard]

I often read on forums, “ take it to your local engineering workshop they will do it for a pint”

 

[rafezetter]

Unfortunately the World is full of people who think they can get other people to do things for nothing, in fact there is a word for them "entrepreneurs" (or successful executive officers!) and the government love them. Me, I call them parasites.

I mentioned this to Dave (builder mate) last night and he told me another method he's used with repeat offender clients - he asks them what they do for a living then if it's something he might use, he asks for a card and says quite innocently "so I'll get the same discounts then will I?" - one habitual offender turned out to be an accountant, but was strangely unwilling to offer the same discounted rates to do Dave's books - and never asked again , funny that.