Raised Panels For Exterior Interior House Doors

[pollys13]

One solid single raised panel or Is the correct method to have two panels back to back, does one have anything between them?
Had problems adjusting the sliding carriage on the tablesaw. I took the sliding.... iron table... off 3 times by myself.... phew.... and no squished toes
Fathed about no end trying to get it set accurately. I did email Axminster, even with their advice still no joy.

They then very kindly sent one of their engineers over, nice chap and he got it all set up perfectly.
A while bought a 2nd hand Whitehill 140mm panel raising block with knives and limiters.
I see there are other makes of panel raising heads and knives available with several different profiles to the Whitehill.
Are these panel raising heads, knives suitable only for kitchen cabinet doors not exterior, interior house ones?
Cheers.

 

[RobinBHM]

1 solid panel usually.

Supporting the work with a false fence is needed to avoid dig ins but has to be thin and close to blade esp. on second side.

Can be done with power feed.

Have you finished your windows yet?

 

[pollys13]

Hi,
Robin thanks, Windows----- no not yet, I've been busy setting up all my machines, I did email Coley telling him. Set up the planer fences all square, set up the spindle fences perfectly square to the table, secured the grub screws holding them in position with Loctite threadlocker, the fences were a bit finnicky to adjust but I got them just right. I set up the blade drift on the bandsaw but after doing that, the Kreg precision fence I got was at quite an acute angle, thought that can't be right so will have.... another look.

I bought an Axminster taper jig for using on the tablesaw ( wots wrong with using the bandsaw, uum ) bought the jig for cutting the 9 degree wedges to make up a jig to cut the window cills on the thicknesser. I'm thinking can use the chop saw to cut a trench in the jigs base board for the wedgies to fit in and glue and perhaps screw in position, put a cleat at one end of the base board to hold in position on the thicknesser. Can also use the taper jig to make the wedgies for the through wedged tenons in the doors.
I'm just about to start using the machines. I said to Coley that I'm intending to have several goes at making up his windows design as practice, dry runs before I start on mine. I also mentioned to Coley I am, pretty much just an enthusiastic beginner with woodworking and joinery. Though probably a tad slow, one step at a time and a bit clueless regarding most of it.

" Supporting the work with a false fence is needed to avoid dig ins but has to be thin and close to blade esp. on second side. " Can you explain the procedure a bit ? " " 1 solid panel usually. " There are exceptions then, why?
" Can be done with power feed. " Righty Ho. Ps also bought replacement knives and spurs for the 60mm rebate block I bought for running the rebates on the windows. I also bought an adapter for the planer cutter block so instead of using the disposable knives I can use the resharpenable knives I bought. Using the carving tools wetstone grinder to put a fresh edge on them.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi
If you are going to make doors with solid raised panels please be aware that you must allow plenty of room for the panels to expand and contract. The power of the expanding panel is huge. Some while ago an alleged boat builder made a narrow boat which had internal cupboard and other doors with solid raised panels, it looked beautiful and sold immediately at a boat show. The new owner moored the boat the following winter and returned in spring to find the all the panels had expanded and destroyed the joints in the frames. This was good news for me since I got the job of making 27 replacement doors.

 

[pollys13]

" This was good news for me since I got the job of making 27 replacement doors " OK
So as a rule of thumb what depth of expansion gap should I think of using, for an interior, exterior house door?

 

[Mike Jordan]

The amount of expansion is controlled by the width of the panel and the variation in moisture content. Quarter sawn timber will move by a smaller amount. For example if the panels are 200mm wide I would be making the grooves 14mm deep and ensuring the floating panel has a gap of 6mm each side.
The effect of shrinkage of the panel is to show a small strip of bare timber at the side of the panel,normal practice to avoid this is to pre finish the panels before assembly.

 

[pollys13]

The amount of expansion is controlled by the width of the panel and the variation in moisture content. Quarter sawn timber will move by a smaller amount. For example if the panels are 200mm wide I would be making the grooves 14mm deep and ensuring the floating panel has a gap of 6mm each side.
The effect of shrinkage of the panel is to show a small strip of bare timber at the side of the panel,normal practice to avoid this is to pre finish the panels before assembly.

OK thanks for that.

 

[meccarroll]

The amount of expansion is controlled by the width of the panel and the variation in moisture content. Quarter sawn timber will move by a smaller amount. For example if the panels are 200mm wide I would be making the grooves 14mm deep and ensuring the floating panel has a gap of 6mm each side.
The effect of shrinkage of the panel is to show a small strip of bare timber at the side of the panel,normal practice to avoid this is to pre finish the panels before assembly.

Accepting everything you have put is valid reasoning Mike and I am not disputing that what you have put is sound advice, I have always taken the standard groove depth for panels to be 12mm deep (same as glass rebate for upper section of a door).

By making the groove the same as any glazing rebate it helps to minimise any complications in setting out. Not sure if you would agree but I'd be interested in your opinion anyway.

Mark

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi Mark
That's a reasonable comment since that would be the best method if the panels were being retained by beads. I was assuming that the shoulder lengths on the tenons would be different between the top and bottom rails and that the middle rail would probably have a diminished shoulder on the rebate side. Ploughing slightly deeper grooves would made no diffence to the setting out of shoulder lengths. I was keen to point out that the panels and muntins would all be subject to movement and would need room to move.
I failed to mention that the vertical height of the panels would not need any allowance for expansion. Coping with timber movement is second nature and largely automatic to you and I but must be confusing to a newcomer.
The boat builder I mentioned had bought in the doors from a well equipped newcomer who made a nice looking door, but neither party had experience of solid panels in this use.
Mike.

 

[meccarroll]

Hi Mark
That's a reasonable comment since that would be the best method if the panels were being retained by beads. I was assuming that the shoulder lengths on the tenons would be different between the top and bottom rails and that the middle rail would probably have a diminished shoulder on the rebate side. Ploughing slightly deeper grooves would made no diffence to the setting out of shoulder lengths. I was keen to point out that the panels and muntins would all be subject to movement and would need room to move.
I failed to mention that the vertical height of the panels would not need any allowance for expansion. Coping with timber movement is second nature and largely automatic to you and I but must be confusing to a newcomer.
The boat builder I mentioned had bought in the doors from a well equipped newcomer who made a nice looking door, but neither party had experience of solid panels in this use.
Mike.

Thank you for the reply Mike, it's handy to be able to pick the brains of fellow Carpenter/Joiners.

Mark