Question Time

[BearTricks]

There you are, you see. The Telegraph ... must be lies.
Why couldn't you look at the Grauniad like normal people?

For all the times I've seen people call it the Grauniad, and guffaw about people citing it, I've barely seen it used as a source. I think people get the point, by now, that no one on here is willing to take it seriously. It's like the Candy Man except you have to continuously say it's name to keep it away rather than invoke it.

 

[Jacob]

There you are, you see. The Telegraph ... must be lies.
Why couldn't you look at the Grauniad like normal people?

For all the times I've seen people call it the Grauniad, and guffaw about people citing it, I've barely seen it used as a source. I think people get the point, by now, that no one on here is willing to take it seriously. It's like the Candy Man except you have to continuously say it's name to keep it away rather than invoke it.

I use it as a source all the time. It's a good paper with a very good website.
People don't like it because they they get uneasy about ideas they don't understand or haven't heard before, whereas we all know what the Express, Telegraph, Mail say, as it's shouted from the roof tops.

 

[RobinBHM]

A wiki site describes the guardian:

The Guardian (Sunday edition: The Observer)[2] is a British centre-left newspaper (beloved of organically-grown, muesli-wearing, sandal-hugging, tree-eating, disabled lesbian atheistic feminist social workers and teachers) with one of the most popular websites in the UK.[3]

NOT my words I hasten to add!

 

[Jacob]

See what I mean!

 

[Eric The Viking]

How are you getting on with the treaties, Jacob?
Read them yet? Or have you joined forces with Kenneth Clarke?

If you want paper copies, your friendly local office of the European Union can provide them (well, it, i.e. the EU const... er, Lisbon treaty). If you want something that's navigable and which actually makes sense, I warmly recommend the volumes prepared by the British Management Data Foundation (BMDF).

I have their volumes on Amsterdam and Nice (which has hidden itself somewhere, presently). I tried to order Lisbon, but they've evidently been swamped recently (can't think why). The EU edition of the Consti... er Lisbon treaty is pretty dense and very small print (or at least mine is), but at least they had the magnanimity to produce one.

It is, after all the ultimate constitutional document under which we all presently live.

The BMDF versions were used by the HoC library, and bought for MPs to use for the few HoC debates we've actually had (on Maastricht, Amsterdam & Nice IIRC), as the EU was "oddly" slow producing volumes in English and their first versions reportedly had mistakes which the BMDF found and corrected.

When Clarke made his famous statement about Maastricht, that he'd voted on it in the HoC without ever having read it (and the man claims to be a lawyer!), he had one fig-leaf excuse - the official version of Maastricht wasn't made available to the British parliament before the debate. The only one they could use was the BMDF version. Thus was our constitution overwritten...

I don't think the BMDF have a Kindle version, but they might. That said, I prefer Post-Its and being able to pencil things in the margins. And unlike the EU's energy policies, a book can't run out of power!

Regards,

E.

 

[Inoffthered]

I'd have more respect for the Guardian if they didn't use an offshore structure to avoid tax.
It is one of the first newspapers to criticise anyone using structuring their tax affairs in an efficient manner, but the newspaper itself is funded by operations and wealth based in one of the tax havens they love to criticise.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A wiki site describes the guardian:

The Guardian (Sunday edition: The Observer)[2] is a British centre-left newspaper (beloved of organically-grown, muesli-wearing, sandal-hugging, tree-eating, disabled lesbian atheistic feminist social workers and teachers) with one of the most popular websites in the UK.[3]

NOT my words I hasten to add!

And Wiki actually doesn't get much wrong. The Encyclopaedia Britannica gets half as much wrong, and that's taken as gospel.

 

[Inoffthered]

A wiki site describes the guardian:

The Guardian (Sunday edition: The Observer)[2] is a British centre-left newspaper (beloved of organically-grown, muesli-wearing, sandal-hugging, tree-eating, disabled lesbian atheistic feminist social workers and teachers) with one of the most popular websites in the UK.[3]

NOT my words I hasten to add!

And Wiki actually doesn't get much wrong. The Encyclopaedia Britannica gets half as much wrong, and that's taken as gospel.

Well it is a British paper, i.e. it is printed in the UK, but it is funded by an offshore "externally managed" investment trust.
There is nothing wrong with this, but it is hypocrisy of the highest order when they slag off Google, Amazon etc for arranging their tax affairs to minimise tax payments in the UK.

 

[Jacob]

Thread slowly going down the tube with exchange of insults but I'm off on me hols anyway. Will be back in time to vote remain!
Been interesting threads though.

It'll be a great pity if the paranoid, timid, unimaginative, misinformed, xenophobic nay-sayers win the day!

 

[RobinBHM]

Hey Jacob,

Enjoy your holiday - wish I was going away now, the recent warm weather started to give me a taste for sunnier climes.

You might come back refreshed and wanting to vote leave

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thread slowly going down the tube with exchange of insults but I'm off on me hols anyway. Will be back in time to vote remain!
Been interesting threads though.

It'll be a great pity if the paranoid, timid, unimaginative, misinformed, xenophobic nay-sayers win the day!

Take the treaty with you - it's only cast-iron fact, after all!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Best description of Izzard yet in the S.T. -
a caterwauling, lipsticked five-year-old with the IQ of a bowl of Angel Delight. :lol:

 

[RogerS]

....
Why don't you just come out with it - "I have my fingers firmly in my ears: La, La, La, I can't hear you."....

I'm listening quite hard to the paranoid army. In fact it's hard to avoid it - they shout loudest and longest!
And I believe what they say less and less.

You only believe what you want to believe and ignore anything/dismiss anything/disparage anything that does not accord to the blinkered views of Chairman Butler.

EtV posts some excellent facts and all you can do, as some others here, is try to denigrate them with disparaging 'funny' flip comments rather than addressing and debating the issue.

 

[RogerS]

......
What part of "ever closer union" are you struggling with, Jacob?....

There are those who aspire to "ever closer union" but it can't happen without our cooperation and full agreement and in any case is very vague. Who knows what changes the future will bring?

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... er-farther

......
Have you actually read any of the treaties, or the Constitution/Lisbon Treaty yet? Be honest!

......
E.

You've cottoned on to Jacobs' 'debating' style. Google ad nauseam until you can find something that supports your view and then just post the link up. No in-depth analysis of the pro's and con's and presenting them as an alternative viewpoint. Just make a flip comment....favourite 'mot de jour' is paranoia.

 

[RogerS]

We'll wish we had a single state when the aliens arrive with their laser beams.

They were coming as they'd identified humans as a possible food source.

But then the toxicology reports came in

 

[RogerS]

We are the 4th largest contributor, after Germany, France and Italy in that order.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Depends upon whose figures you are using and whether they are nett or gross - France and Italy get far more out. I have seen statistic that suggest Germany and the UK are the only contributors. Usually the Netherlands figure in them somewhere, not the basket case that is Italy.

It's not a simple cash transaction. Those who see it that way miss the whole point

Exactly. France pays way more in magic mushrooms.

 

[rafezetter]

....
Why don't you just come out with it - "I have my fingers firmly in my ears: La, La, La, I can't hear you."....

I'm listening quite hard to the paranoid army. In fact it's hard to avoid it - they shout loudest and longest!
And I believe what they say less and less.

If I'm honest a small part of me wants the vote to fail, so that you and all the others who claim "paranoia" and other such drivel can be made to eat your words.

 

[rafezetter]

How are you getting on with the treaties, Jacob?
Read them yet? Or have you joined forces with Kenneth Clarke?

If you want paper copies, your friendly local office of the European Union can provide them (well, it, i.e. the EU const... er, Lisbon treaty). If you want something that's navigable and which actually makes sense, I warmly recommend the volumes prepared by the British Management Data Foundation (BMDF).

I have their volumes on Amsterdam and Nice (which has hidden itself somewhere, presently). I tried to order Lisbon, but they've evidently been swamped recently (can't think why). The EU edition of the Consti... er Lisbon treaty is pretty dense and very small print (or at least mine is), but at least they had the magnanimity to produce one.

It is, after all the ultimate constitutional document under which we all presently live.

The BMDF versions were used by the HoC library, and bought for MPs to use for the few HoC debates we've actually had (on Maastricht, Amsterdam & Nice IIRC), as the EU was "oddly" slow producing volumes in English and their first versions reportedly had mistakes which the BMDF found and corrected.

When Clarke made his famous statement about Maastricht, that he'd voted on it in the HoC without ever having read it (and the man claims to be a lawyer!), he had one fig-leaf excuse - the official version of Maastricht wasn't made available to the British parliament before the debate. The only one they could use was the BMDF version. Thus was our constitution overwritten...

I don't think the BMDF have a Kindle version, but they might. That said, I prefer Post-Its and being able to pencil things in the margins. And unlike the EU's energy policies, or the UK govt a book can't run out of power!

Regards,

E.

You're wasting your time Erik - even if he ever read it, which he won't, he would still claim it's all lies, nonsense and paranoia even while the EU army were dragging his wife (assuming he has one) out of the house by her hair to answer for a crime that didn't happen.

Lets just hope he doesn't get on the wrong side of a europol and is detained for an indeterminable time while on his hols.

I swear I've never had a compulsion to send a seriously sweary /rant PM to another member of the internet ever in my life, but for Jacob, I'd make an exception. I honestly think his credibility here is gone, he knows it and is trolling to keep himself amused at our expense utterly uncaring that there are those who might actually take his words seriously and vote remain based on his "advice". It's like taking lifestyle advice from Torquemada.

(oh and next time I see you I'll be pestering you for details about Buzz Aldrin and why didn't I get an invite?)

Best description of Izzard yet in the S.T. -
a caterwauling, lipsticked five-year-old with the IQ of a bowl of Angel Delight. :lol:

That made me LOL but it's not fair to Angel Delight - I used to love that stuff. Seriously though, I also used to like EI quite a bit, as he was a more "intellectual" comedian and some of his observational comedy was seriously good, but of late I think he's latched onto this whole debacle as a way to ever increase his somewhat niche market and instead made a right fool of himself instead.