Quangsheng Shoulder Plane Passaround

[G S Haydon]

Thank you Mike, it's a shame I have a face for radio :lol:. That's a fair point on the sole flatness. It looked flat enough and it planed straight and true. I will confess I'm not a feeler gauge kind of person with my woodworking and anything I have to measure flatness would not be a good enough bench mark. Bottom line is both planes made an sharp accurate shoulder with no gaps. Also the blade was just slightly proud as you would expect and enabled me to get the results I needed.

 

[Glynne]

No pressure on me then!
Not sure about my wife's ability with a video and with my scouse accent everyone might need sub-titles - so I think I might just stick to a post with maybe a couple of pictures.
I have both a surface plate and proper straight edge so I'll try and check for co-planar with and without tension.
Having had more expert reviews I think I'll probably go for the agricultural view, which may not be that helpful but will at least be different.

 

[G S Haydon]

It went out first class signed for yesterday afternoon Glynne. Nice to hear you have some way of testing things I could not.

 

[tobytools]

For nearly a Oner I think better can be had.

Not new, I don't think, unless you can point it out to me.

BugBear

True about the new comment.

A mini veritas can be had for less than a Oner
So can new old stock woodies.
So can foreign shoulder.
Faithful do a combo one for less.
There is a few about.

I could make you a NEW wooden shoulder for £99 if you like. I accept payments by PayPal

Lol
TT

 

[Glynne]

Graham,
The plane arrived late this morning thank you.
A bit surreal in terms of talking about checking flatness with surface plates etc as I was swinging a pick axe at the time it arrived, but I will hopefully get down to the workshop tomorrow.
My wife was very impressed with your video and is now keen for me to do one - more to have a laugh at my expense rather than any great contribution to woodworking!

 

[Mr_P]

Not sure if this is the same spec as the one Mr Haydon uses in his excellent video.

£50* for a Stanley Tools No.92 Sweetheart Premium Shoulder Plane.

http://www.tradetoolshop.com/stanley-to ... plane.html

* Special offer only 2 left

Never used this firm or tool so don't blame me if it's rubbish.

 

[G S Haydon]

Good to know it got there glynee. Why not give a video a shot, it's quite easy these days. I did my early that are no longer listed on a smart phone. Nice to know I satisfy a wide demographic too

Mr_P yes that is the Stanley, comfort in use is it's strong point, quality of finish perhaps not. Reasonably good value at that price too.

 

[G S Haydon]

First of all thank you Matthew for offering this tool around. It's a very refreshing way for potential customers to get to grips with a new offering.

On the perhaps pointless level of vanity I think the thing looks good.

The finish is generally very high, they only issue I had was the sharp edges on the black areas. Not sure I've captured it well but hopefully you can see the light bouncing on the edges. I'm not sure how that can be sorted at the factory. Matthew mentioned his Clifton was the same so spending more might not get rid of the issue. The Stanley I own has a poor surface finish that almost sets my teeth on edge with it's texture. However it does not have edges that cause me any discomfort.

The cutting iron is the lovely simple high carbon steel that gets sharp, really nice and sharp. Having tools with simple steels that get wicked sharp is something I prefer. My previous experience with QS steel was great. I did not have the tool long enough to learn everything about it but I have no reason to expect it to be poor in the long term.
The only issue I had was the cutting iron did not present square in the mouth. I just needed to hone it slightly off which seemed to cure it just fine. I should of checked and found out where the root cause was but my fix worked which was good enough for me.

Mike made a valid point on checking the sole. Just to stress again I don't own anything accurate enough to measure this. However I tend to be more of a use it and if it' aint broke don't fix it camp. Pleasingly the plane was not in the "broke" camp. Also the cutting iron projects enough each side to enable me to use a shoulder plane as I like to.

It has an adjustable mouth which I think is just fine, not something I look for but I guess to match up with the typical features of modern shoulder planes it is reasonable to add it. The adjustment is easy to use so no worries here. The removal of the blade is nice and easy too requiring just the rotation of the nut, no screwdrivers needed, unlike the Stanley which seems fussy.

A side note, the luban mouth screw does not look great, I'm happy to pay for a new one. Perhaps Matthew could confirm if that was my work.

I'm not sure if it's me being used to the Stanley but perhaps in the most critical area use the Stanley feels more comfortable to use. No sharp edges and feels more balanced to me. Sadly that is the most critical thing for me, even beyond steels and surface finish. My stuff is for usin' and abusin' not for looking flash although if I can bag both I gladly will! Would I buy one, maybe although I'm not 100% sure I would. I have a secondhand one on the way that will give me some idea of what I can find. I hope it is good as no matter how nice the Stanley is to use I don't like having to strip the devil down to get the blade out.

But, please take this all with a pinch of salt. "Reviews" no matter how you cut them always have a bias you must look beyond. The best way is to try for yourself. I'm sure if you add your details to the list you can have a play and make up your own mind.

Thanks for the kind words on the vids too, not sure if it's narcissism but when watching other folk I though "I could do that too".

Cheers

G

 

[matthewwh]

Don't worry Graham, I'm sure I'll have a replacement screw around here somewhere.

I think there may be a correlation between the finely ground finish and the crispness of the edges around the relieved areas. From memory my Clifton 410 felt similar when new, but the edges soon ease with use and handling.

Thank you for taking the trouble to do a video, I wasn't expecting that!

You mentioned different techniques, I often hold a shoulder plane the other way around; with the heel of the hand in the swoop at the front, index finger along the lever arm. You can use the heel of the hand and the index finger to transfer pressure between toe and heel, and you can take the tension off the lever to make adjustments without changing grip. The Luban is a bit heavier than the 410 though, so perhaps it would suit a two handed grip better.

 

[G S Haydon]

You've gone Japanese on us Matthew . Thanks again for the chance to try this plane out.

 

[Trafalgar]

Very nice Graham. I must say that I like the "pass it around and try it" model rather than the "you can have one, now tell me what you think of it" model.

Makes much, much more sense and for what I hope are obvious reasons.

 

[bugbear]

I think there may be a correlation between the finely ground finish and the crispness of the edges around the relieved areas. From memory my Clifton 410 felt similar when new, but the edges soon ease with use and handling.

Yeah - it's the same effect you can get on the sides of a chisel after you've flattened it. You sometimes get it on the spine and heel of a new (nicely ground...) knife. But I've never found blunting an edge to be in the slightest bit difficult...

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

In case anyone's interested, I did a review of the Stanley Sweetheart #92 a few years ago. I remain unimpressed.

I'm interested that Stanley have put a screwdriver slot in the main nut - I had to hacksaw mine myself.

It's also interesting that, in the case of both old and new-style #92s, tighening down on the blade makes no difference to the co-planarity of the two bits of the sole, because of the design. I'd guess if you tighten down enough on the QS so as to put them out of line, you're over-tightening a huge amount anyway.

If it's a problem. you could fettle it as one does with a Bailey pattern - flatten the sole with the Iron done up tight but retracted slightly. I say that theoretically. I've done two bailey pattern planes completely, and just flattened with nothing fitted to the sole casting at all. It doesn't seem to have caused issues.

I didn't check the mouth adjustment at Peter Sefton's, but it looked like the slideway was properly parallel to the sole anyway.

 

[jimi43]

Just got around to watching the most excellent video Graham...bravo mate...very informative indeed!

I was a bit disappointed that you didn't cover the whole story though as I should have liked to have seen you unboxing it on the floor!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jimi

 

[Noggsy]

When it arrives with me, I think that I might just cover the unboxing, as I'm unlikely to have anything to add to Graham's excellent video

 

[G S Haydon]

Cheers Jimi. You'll have to post a clip of the beautiful plane you are making in use!

Noggsy, I actually hope there is more contrasting feedback to mine. ETV's link is a great example. As Charles mentioned this is a very healty way to learn about new stuff and I hope we all get the chance to do it again.

 

[Glynne]

Firstly thanks to Matthew for giving people an opportunity to review one of his products.
Secondly, thanks to Graham for a great video and a further post with pictures.
Unfortunately I didn't read the later post properly and I got a bit of a scare as I'll explain later.

Package arrived as announced on the forum and sorry Noggsy but unpacking probably won't be long enough to make a video unless you want to PM me with a challenge to make it difficult?

First impressions, a really nice piece of kit. Solid and heavy but the edges are rough. I don't think it was just other posts that made me look out for them but they aren't the most comfortable. They don't cut you (as I've had bevel edge chisels do) but if the plane was mine, I would do something about them. Other than that, really nicely machined and all adjusters are very smooth.
I took the plane apart and that caused me a little concern when I looked at the blade.

From what I've gleamed about Graham, the edge certainly wasn't what I was expecting so a hasty retreat to check the video and Forum and all was revealed. As Graham posted (with a better picture), the blade had been honed at a slight angle so as it sat properly in the mouth.
On the video, Graham showed some movement between the tang of the blade and the body and hence the need for some adjustment. It is at this point that I need to ask a question. My understanding is that a shoulder plane blade needs to be able to be adjusted laterally to allow for aligning with both sides and so, there has to be some deliberate play. If I have got that wrong then please accept my apologies and correct me.
So if there was a need for honing on one side, why? A check with a small square showed the cutting edge wasn't at right angles to the sides - and it was quite a bit out. So at the huge risk of mentioning "sharpening", I did!
Squared the edge using an old Eclipse jig on a 400 and the 1000 diamond stone and then "Scary" sharped with paper actually bought from Matthew.
I have to be honest that I did rush this a bit but not too displeased with the result. If you look closely, you can see the reflection of the feeler guage which is more a tribute to the carbon steel than my sharpening prowess.

Or a reflection of the iPad camera

Having re-set up the plane, it works beautifully. I tried on some soft pine, straight grained ash and some figured oak - an absolute joy.
I won't post any pictures as Graham has more than covered this off.
-------------------------------
Mike (Woodbrains) asked the question of whether the plane was co-planar under tension and so to test this, I took the calm, rational decision (bottled out) and consulted an expert. At huge personal expense, I consulted the Managing Director of: -
http://precisionparts.co.uk/index.html
also known as Liam - my Lad.
The usual father / son rivalry kicks in here as Liam is to woodworking what the Boston Strangler was to door to door salesmen. But in his expert field of precision engineering (and he does some amazing work), he offered to have a look at the plane for me, so as he could then explain to me all the things I don't know about engineering - hence the personal cost!
Mike, the plane is essentially flat both tensioned and untensioned.
He measured flatness as the deviation across the surfaces being: -
Untensioned Sole 0.003mm Toe 0.019mm Side (high points) 0.012mm
Tensioned Sole 0.014mm Toe 0.020mm Side 0.046mm
To put that in perspective, the minimum width of a human hair is meant to be around 0.17mm.
-------------------------------
Ed mentioned that he has an Anant bullnose plane. So in the interests of confessions, yes I bought one when they were on offer from Rutlands - and Sod's Law, they are now £20 and still daylight robbery.
More for interest rather than comparison: -

And one of the hollow ground blade: -

If I use it at all it as a chisel plane. The flatness even varies depending on whether you insert the pacers into the bullnose.
-------------------------------
Conclusion
An impressive piece of kit.
Liam (engineer son) was quite impressed with the construction and accuracy of machining. He did suggest that if his company were to make them, he would insert an extra process of putting the machined blanks into a "Tumbler" which would remove the sharp edges. For the small extra cost, he believes they would be more marketable as "feel" still plays a major part for components that are handled.

For me, the plane worked beautifully but like Macros, it is a bit big for the boxes and small pieces I make but yes I am now interested in a smaller shoulder plane and so any recommendations Matthew?
I'll have another play over the weekend and post the plane off to Mike S on Monday.

I'm not a professional woodworker so if I have inadvertently offended anybody then I apologise in advance and will be more than happy to learn of my shortcomings.

Thanks again Matthew, I think many suppliers could learn a lot from you.

Glynne

PS Liam did raise the question as to why woodworking tools were made to such fine tolerances when wood moves so much with humidity? I have to admit that I haven't tried to quantify the extent of movement but in the interests of father / son relationships, I blinded him with so many "woody" terms that he either acepted the need for the precision (or went away bored).

 

[Eric The Viking]

Nice one, Glynne.

It confirms what I felt about it (well the Wood River version) when I had a look. And I agree with your son''s comments about a tumbler - the corners do feel slightly 'sharp'.

E.

 

[G S Haydon]

Excellent Glynne!

You were much more probing than me, I just got over a minor issue without explaining it as well as you did . In a very rough and ready way I eyed the sole and the got over the out of square with some freehand honing .
Very good to have the thoughts of someone of a metal mindset too. I guess the extra step of refining would add more to the cost I guess. Those "tolerances" are a useful narrative and an essentilal manufacturing benchmark but also a good marketing tool, even if the extra level of accuracy is not perhaps essential in can give, on paper at least, the impression of greater superiority.

 

[Glynne]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Graham, I think the only difference was time. You tested the plane, made a really good video, posted lots of detailed pictures and were no doubt conscious that you had to pass the plane on quickly so completely understandable that you just got it working. As you'd virtually covered all of the bases, there was no point in me doing the same so I had the time to play around - I'm just surprised that no one has criticised my sharpening practice but it is early days!
In terms of the accuracy of the planes, I should have mentioned that for the Anant which was about 0.04+ mm out, you can feel the plane rock on the surface plate. I think often just quoting numbers doesn't mean a lot but if you have an idea what it means in practice I think it helps.
Like you I don't tend to fiddle about with feeler gauges and if it works and I'm happy with it then I just use and probably abuse it.