Quangsheng No.62 low angle vs No.5 vs No.5 1/2?

[Jacob]

5 1/2 is a good choice. Not sure that Cosman's recommendations on hand tools mean much - he'll recommend whatever he's selling and he doesn't break character if you make a reasonable suggestion about what would be more practical working by hand.

That said, 5 1/2 is a good all around plane for bench work and it can be set to do panel work and prep for a smoother, as well as joint all but long stuff.

OK for long stuff too.
You can do most things with any standard pattern plane if you have to. They aren't that specialised until you get to moulding/rebate planes etc. But it's handy to have a few sizes from the range, not least to roughly match the size of the workpiece. 5 1/2 is mid range

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

OK for long stuff too.
You can do most things with any standard pattern plane if you have to. They aren't that specialised until you get to moulding/rebate planes etc. But it's handy to have a few sizes from the range, not least to roughly match the size of the workpiece. 5 1/2 is mid range

Why is there no love for a #6? I’m curious! I like UK forums far better than the US forums, as many participants are more users than trend following fan-boys, and the UK opinion, as users, seems more appropriate.

 

[Jacob]

Why is there no love for a #6? I’m curious! I like UK forums far better than the US forums, as many participants are more users than trend following fan-boys, and the UK opinion, as users, seems more appropriate.

I've got one but don't use it much. Perhaps because it's not that much bigger than a 5 1/2 enough to make a difference. Ditto 4 1/2, not small enough to make much difference.
Though if I'm doing a lot of hand planing I'll drag them all out and keep working them until they all need sharpening, to save having to stop.

 

[D_W]

Why is there no love for a #6? I’m curious! I like UK forums far better than the US forums, as many participants are more users than trend following fan-boys, and the UK opinion, as users, seems more appropriate.

The 6 is an excellent plane. I'm sure were mostly past the part where Patrick said it was a pointless plane. He also had everybody and their brother buying the large scraper plane believing it was a great tool for solid wood.

His poo-pooing did allow me to get a few 6s for very little, though.

I would personally have a 6 before a 5 1/2, but not the overweight 6 that quangsheng or woodcraft sell.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Patrick did more for reviving interest in vintage than all current internet sensations. He also (with Pete Taran), started interest in boutique saw making, but at reasonable cost. LN, which purchased their brand remains one of the best brands, and at prices lower than most, except LV.

Leach and I know each as friends. I’ve manned his booth for him a few times and acted as a pick up point for him, in our part of PA. Haven’t seen him since before the pandemic.

 

[Bojam]

Patrick did more for reviving interest in vintage than all current internet sensations. He also (with Pete Taran), started interest in boutique saw making, but at reasonable cost. LN, which purchased their brand remains one of the best brands, and at prices lower than most, except LV.

Who is this Patrick of whom you speak? Genuinely interested

 

[Jacob]

Who is this Patrick of whom you speak? Genuinely interested

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
He's right about the #6! Nothing wrong with it it's just a bit unnecessary between 5 1/2 and 7

 

[Bojam]

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

Thanks

 

[D_W]

Though if I'm doing a lot of hand planing I'll drag them all out and keep working them until they all need sharpening, to save having to stop.

very strange.

 

[D_W]

Who is this Patrick of whom you speak? Genuinely interested

Sorry, I couldn't remember Patrick's last name. His site is a nice free offering to folks from the viewpoint of a dealer, and he's long been a dealer of tools and honest in a couple of things that I've bought.

The statements about the use of tools and which are useful and which are not are more from a dealer's point of view and less from a serious users, though.

To trial things here and there and use them in bits and pieces is far different than using them 2 or 10 hours a week in relatively heavy use. The latter will lead you toward what Nicholson suggests, but you'll get there on your own (I did) and then only understand the value of the advice after that.

I don't have a great feel for what's practical when hand tools are seldom used (aforementioned cosman type stuff where they're not intentionally being used in earnest from rough to finished- if he was actually doing that rather than doing it to be filmed, he'd do things differently) or do 2% of the work. If the tools aren't being used seriously, one can come up with all kinds of opinions and then not risk having them be obviously impractical.

Patrick's adoring of the scraper plane and thinking a 6 is pointless is a little weird. The scraper plane a tool that became popular for veneers - it's a dog if you work wood that has sat overnight when the temp has changed in the shop.

 

[Jorny]

No 6 turns up quite often in Sweden, seems to have been a popular size here. Another thing I have noticed is that corrugated soles are a lot more common here than uncorrugated. I wonder why, the internet guys seem to say that corrugated soles are inferior and should be avoided.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

To trial things here and there and use them in bits and pieces is far different than using them 2 or 10 hours a week in relatively heavy use. The latter will lead you toward what Nicholson suggests, but you'll get there on your own (I did) and then only understand the value of the advice after that.

I don't have a great feel for what's practical when hand tools are seldom used (aforementioned cosman type stuff where they're not intentionally being used in earnest from rough to finished- if he was actually doing that rather than doing it to be filmed, he'd do things differently) or do 2% of the work. If the tools aren't being used seriously, one can come up with all kinds of opinions and then not risk having them be obviously impractical.

David, this is a significant issue. You spend much of your time planing wood, it seems for hours on end, but not building furniture. Most here who build furniture are likely to be blended woodworkers (as I am), and only spend some time planing. We are nothing like woodworkers of 200 years ago. Why would we be? If woodworkers of old were alive today, they would also more likely be blended in their use of power and hand.

The point is that some of your conclusions may be accurate, but few are going to take them seriously because they refer to times considered archaic. I find them interesting, and have learned from your postings, but I am also a student of woodworking methods. Having said this, there remains much of what you write will appear disparaging to many because you present it as absolute ("tools aren't being used seriously"). There are as many methods as there are preferences and personalities.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

It's simple - it's not like I never make furniture. I've hand planed board feet above 4 figures. I don't make a piece of furniture a month, but I make either decent or utility furniture or cabinets often enough that if I was poor at using hand tools, it would make it undesirable.

What I see is people who don't use hand tools other than like you do wanting to make definitive opinions or jumping to conclusions when someone says they want to work entirely by hand. Derek, you have no clue what you're talking about with the use of planes, body mechanics or anything like that, and when it's pointed out, you complain loudly.

I have no idea why. I don't know which fret saw works the best with blue tape - I stay out of most of the discussions about drawer slips and corner biscuits because I don't think much about that stuff.

Once in a while, someone comes along who says they want to work entirely by hand. They're met with misleading statements about whether or not it can be done, bad advice about what tools to use to do it, or answers that have nothing to do with the question they asked. I think that's a shame.

Last time I made the point about body mechanics and how bad the demonstrations and advice usually are - to the point that they will convince someone that you can't work by hand entirely - you threw a fit and went to pulling strings behind the scenes - seems like a pattern there. It's only so long that someone like me needs to have a self-appointed sheep dog trying to herd everyone and pretend that speaking from a sand foundation is solid when it comes to working entirely by hand, and the same thing here ...."i'll tell you what you should do" is nonsense.

Not everyone wants to build flat furniture and do things the way you're doing them, and not everyone wants to do everything by hand.

People can choose which way they want to go - I sure hope if someone wants to know what to kit their shop out with if they want euro machines they don't ask me ,and I sure hope if they think they want to work completely by hand or give it an honest try, they don't ask you. One of us will give an answer regardless, the other one won't. It does nobody favors to pretend to be an expert and change advice with the seasons.

 

[D_W]

Here was the line that caused me to speak up in this thread vs. not much in others lately:

>>so will need to use the plane for dimensioning and smoothing all stock<<

The words low angle come up and that objective comes up, and I will speak up. I feel like nobody gave me any good advice about dimensioning - I learned it the hard way. Warren gave good advice, but it was sparse and hard to figure out.

I don't see much elsewhere.

The statement about it not mattering which type of plane if it's just trimming and fitting joints is still accurate - I don't think it will ever be much of an impediment. If it did, we wouldn't have had a decade of advice about how great bevel up planes were. As soon as the scope of the work widens a little bit past smoothing things, scraper planes and bevel up planes fall on their face. It doesn't do anyone any favors to pretend to be friendly and discount the avenues of more credible advice.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Now let’s be careful with dissing bevel planes! I’ve gotten a crapload of dressing edges today and yesterday with three BU planes with gorgeous results: 7-1/2, LN 95 edge plane and LN 101.

of course the material is exterior PVC,

 

[Jacob]

very strange.

I guess you don't do a lot of planing. It's hard work and it's good to get a bit of momentum up if you want to get a job done.

 

[Jacob]

........we wouldn't have had a decade of advice about how great bevel up planes were..

er - can't say I took much notice myself. Too many salesmen on the case!
I always saw them as just a retro fashion - a touch of "steam punk" style.

Here was the line that caused me to speak up in this thread vs. not much in others lately:

>>so will need to use the plane for dimensioning and smoothing all stock<<

Nobody normally goes in for "dimensioning and smoothing all stock" except timber yards supplying PAR for DIYers or mouldings for the trade including floor boards, T&G etc.
In a small shop planing is done after sawing to size from the cutting list. Stock stays untouched until needed.
There are exceptions of course; small stuff better left together and sawn after planing e.g. I used to make 100s of 6" cube boxes, 6 x 1/4" planed first in handy lengths before cutting to finished length.

..... I feel like nobody gave me any good advice about dimensioning - I learned it the hard way. Warren gave good advice, but it was sparse and hard to figure out.

I don't see much elsewhere.

It's an essential and unavoidable procedure which everybody does one way or another.
You keep talking about it, why not describe your procedure in more detail, not just photos of shavings?

..... the avenues of more credible advice.

Where do you find them?

 

[Jacob]

.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

David, your personal statements are repetitive and without any truth. As soon as I disagree, you immediately and predicably resort to playing the man and not the ball. Your comment about my not taking criticism is pure projection - the pot calling the kettle black.

Derek

 

[D_W]

David, your personal statements are repetitive and without any truth. As soon as I disagree, you immediately and predicably resort to playing the man and not the ball. Your comment about my not taking criticism is pure projection - the pot calling the kettle black.

Derek

Derek, I dismiss your opinions on things like hand dimensioning. I don't expect you to agree with mine - it's an impossible goal for two reasons:
1) you have a habit of wanting to tell people who they should be addressing their messages to and how they should do it, which culminates in complaining to forums and lobbying people to go register and address things that aren't even on your radar
2) you don't have experience dimensioning wood and have given a lot of bad advice in the past related to dealing with relatively regular woodworking tasks. I followed some of it early and learned the hard way

If the person in this thread says they're going to need to do everything with a plane, you don't have the context any more than I'd have context lecturing Warren about carving, which he does professionally, among other things.

What I find really offputting is someone who isn't doing something wanting to tell other people what their message should be. I don't care if your message is wrong - most peoples' messages are wrong. It's the grabbing of everyone else's belt loops while they're walking that I find annoying, and then trying to pull strings, which to claim here that you don't do is really odd.

Something is off, I don't know what it is, if it's the lack of new tools being introduced and getting the admiration for posting them? I don't know. I'd prefer no interaction with you because the things that I like to discuss, you're outmatched on and we get this. The things I'm outmatched on, I don't try to discuss.