Quality of Power tool Manufacturers....

[Adam]

I saw a reference to Hilti power tools this morning, as being "the best" of power tools. I didn't even know about this brand. Perhaps there are others I don't know about - if so... please add in any thoughts....

I was wondering, if anyone who has experience of multiple brands, and/or repairs could put these (and any I've no doubt missed) in a semblence of "quality". By quality, I mean the precision-ness of the item, its bearing wobble, its quality, its battery life - i.e. how good is it at doing its job. At this moment, I'd like to leave price out of it.

In terms of power tools, and not individual tools - but "across-the-range". I did a quick list, approximately how I thought it might be - I put Hilti at the top as I don't know any different.

Hilti?
Festool
Mafell
Hitachi
Makita
Bosch (Blue)
Dewalt
Panasonic
Ryobi
Trend
Axminster (White)
Erbaer
Bosch (Green)
Black and Decker

 

[dedee]

Adam,
I think you should find room for Triton in there somewhere. I've no persoanl experiance of them yet but I've never seen a poor review for their machines.

Andy

 

[ByronBlack]

I've used a Hilti breaker drill (on hire) and it was quite an impressive bit of kit. However on the other hand, I recently purchased some Hilti wood drill bits which are just rubbish, they twist, buckle and leave a very very poor finish, they are now in the bin.

From my small experience with power-tools. I would put my Festool at the top for it's build quality, finish, customer service and support and finally usage.

The only other 'decent' brand i've used is Ryobi, I had one of their 1/2 inch routers and was quite impressed with it and wouldn't hesitate to buy more of their tools.

Oh and I forgot, JET stuff is really good quality too, the Bandsaw I had was an amazingly good piece of machinery - so not sure that fits into powertools.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hilti have been around for years. I used one of their SDS drills many years ago - it was the real deal.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Scrit]

Adam

So where would you put Porter-Cable, Flex, Casals, Sparky, Felisatti, Freud, Virutex, Rexon, Lamello, Milwaukee, Metabo, Fein, Perles, Kress, Spit (competitor of Hilti) etc? Some manufacturers have products in their range which are not up to the general standard of the rest of the range, for example AEG used to sell some very iffy stuff whilst their SDS drills were bulletproof (and are now badged Milwaukee), some manufacturers such as Black & Decker are down in the DIY-only area, some have a difficult to define difference between the DIY and professional tools as in the cases of some Ryobi and Metabo products, whilst there are those manufacturers who only do industrial tools only few of which are ever seen by people outside of specific trades and there I'm thinking Fein. If you were to say who does the best portable lightweight router I'd probably rank them (from experience):

Festool
Mafell
Bosch
deWalt

Whilst for belt sanders it might be:

Makita
Bosch

as the older Makitas are just about unbreakable, albeit not very sophisticated.

An interesting question, though

PS If you ar unfamiliar with the brands, they are all available inthe UK in one guise or another, so here's a few clues:

Flex - are or were the German end of P-C and make sanding and polishing machinery
Casals - are Spanish and make some of the Freud stuff (like the big routers)
Sparky - are German and make stuff for loads of other people
Felisatti - are Italian, you've probably seen the Trend T( which is one of theirs. They also make routers for Metabo
Virutex - are a Spanish brand who make tools marketed mainly to the woodworking trade
Fein - are a German brand known for their Multisander
Perles - are another company who make stuff for others
Kress - are a German company who make stuff for others as well. They are best known in the UK for the Wickes trade range although they even supply stuff to Lamello

Scrit

 

[Adam]

Adam

So where would you put Porter-Cable, Flex, Casals, Sparky, Felisatti, Freud, Virutex, Rexon, Lamello, Milwaukee, Metabo, Fein, Perles, Kress, Spit (competitor of Hilti) etc?

No idea. That was the point of the thread. If I was at my local tool shop, having bust a power tool whilst working on something, and they offered me tool A or tool B and the price was the same or marginally different. I'm looking for guidance as to which, on average might be better. Split over the members here, I though a semblence of a list might be possible. Many of those you mention I've either A) never heard of or B) no idea where they sit in quality terms. I was hoping people here might be able to suggest their placing.

Some manufacturers have products in their range which are not up to the general standard of the rest of the range, for example AEG used to sell some very iffy stuff whilst their SDS drills were bulletproof (and are now badged Milwaukee), some manufacturers such as Black & Decker are down in the DIY-only area, some have a difficult to define difference between the DIY and professional tools as in the cases of some Ryobi and Metabo products, whilst there are those manufacturers who only do industrial tools only few of which are ever seen by people outside of specific trades and there I'm thinking Fein.

OK, surely its possible for people to come to some sort of "average" across the range?

If you were to say who does the best portable lightweight router I'd probably rank them (from experience):

Festool
Mafell
Bosch
deWalt

Whilst for belt sanders it might be:

Makita
Bosch

as the older Makitas are just about unbreakable, albeit not very sophisticated.

Great, but without reference to any individual model, and based on models that I would be potentially able to buy if I went into a well stocked tool shop - how would you grade them.

Or, to put it a different way, if you were ordered to go and buy every power tool you needed, all of a same brand, (and had unlimited cash), what order or preference would you put them in? Perhaps thats how I should have prhased it to start with....

An interesting question, though

PS If you ar unfamiliar with the brands, they are all available inthe UK in one guise or another, so here's a few clues:

Flex - are or were the German end of P-C and make sanding and polishing machinery
Casals - are Spanish and make some of the Freud stuff (like the big routers)
Sparky - are German and make stuff for loads of other people
Felisatti - are Italian, you've probably seen the Trend T( which is one of theirs. They also make routers for Metabo
Virutex - are a Spanish brand who make tools marketed mainly to the woodworking trade
Fein - are a German brand known for their Multisander
Perles - are another company who make stuff for others
Kress - are a German company who make stuff for others as well. They are best known in the UK for the Wickes trade range although they even supply stuff to Lamello

Scrit

Interesting. Thanks.

Adam

 

[Scrit]

I'm looking for guidance as to which, on average might be better. Split over the members here, I though a semblence of a list might be possible.

Basically because all manufacturers tend to buy-in or sell-out tools from/to others I don't think there's a simple answer. Buy a small Mafell router and that is actually made by Festiol, whilst the large Festool 2000 router is made by Mafell - so where does that leave the rankings?

OK, surely its possible for people to come to some sort of "average" across the range?

Unfortunately not. I doubt that I'm alone in buying what appears to be the most appropriate tool for the job rather than a yellow/green/black and green/blue one, etc.

The router ranking was actually Festool OF1000, Mafell OF50e, Bosch GOF900ACE and deWalt DW621 (or whatever they call the Elu MOF96 nowadays), but there are loads of machines I've never and will never try. My criteria are potentially very different to yours - for me reliability, longevity and repairability often rank above price or features. That is because I make at least some of my living from the tools I choose.

Or, to put it a different way, if you were ordered to go and buy every power tool you needed, all of a same brand, (and had unlimited cash), what order or preference would you put them in? Perhaps thats how I should have prhased it to start with....

But you still wouldn't have got an answer because I've found that no one manufacturer offers a complete range of tools with the features and quality I feel that I need, although at a push I'd probably have to say:

Mafell
Festool
Bosch
deWalt

despite deWalts quality being at times extremely suspect. And in doing so I'd need to forego some superb tools made by smaller, more specialised manufacturers (such as Lamello) and even have to ignore some of the larger firms like Metabo and Fein, both of whom manufacture (in general) excellent tools but who can't offer the range I feel that I need.

Scrit

 

[Phil]

Hmmm

Difficult question since most of us don't have experience of many different tools from many manufacturers. I personally stick to the manufacturers of tools that have used before and have given good service or tools that many people have said are better due to specialist features ( Triton and easy change of bits when in the router table etc etc)

I personally like Makita since they are well made , reliable , in my price range and I never had any problems with anything from them.

But I really believe you get what you pay for and the laws of diminishing returns...At the top end you pay a lot more money for perfection.

Asking a load of "Tool Tarts"....i mean collectors what manufacturer is best sounds like who has the best football team to me.

Maybe a poll would be better way of finding out what manufacturer most people think is best ?

Happy Days
Phil

 

[Scrit]

Asking a load of "Tool Tarts"....I mean collectors what manufacturer is best sounds like who has the best football team to me.

Hell's teeth - that means I'm on another slippery slope :lol: Anyone care to tell me how much my antique Stanley 263 laminate trimmer is worth? Do I hear 10p?

Scrit

 

[Mr Mike]

Thought I'd stumbled onto the Screwfix forum for a minute !




8-[





errrrrrrm...........I'll get my coat !!!

 

[engineer one]

have to say from my limited experience, you can't guarantee from one range, but if you have the money,

then
mafell.
festo,
fein,

that gets you circular saws, sanders, detail sanders and jigsaws, plus
the domino, or dd40 doweller, plust a biscuit jointer. plus guide rails.
and decent extraction also, but do you use them enough to make up the
price difference.

having said that i know about return rates of c**p and these three brands are really low down there. making them cheaper in the long run.

not sure it covers the question though, sorry :twisted:

paul :wink:

 

[Matt1245]

In general, I would put Panasonic closer to the top of the list, up there with the festool and mafell stuff, above hitachi and makita. But not really a fair comparison as Panasonic only make cordless tools. There batteries are the most advanced and have a massive capacity (upto 3.5ah) and the build quality is excellent too.

As a range, i would put Dewalt down below ryobi, as out of all the major manufacturers, suppliers tend to have more problems with dewalt machines in the warranty period. You have to cherry pick the dewaltt stuff, some is good whilst other machines are just black and deckers in a yellow skirt. The most skilled department at dewalt is the marketing department.

I would put Trend above ryobi.

Another one to add to the mix would be metabo, which i would put near thr top with the mafell/hitachi/makita mix.

It's all very general tho, as it's hard to compare brands with small ranges (like trend) to brands with huge ranges (like makita)

Matt.

 

[DomValente]

I think lists can only be made on three criteria.

Reliability, ease of use and cost, perhaps with some tools accuracy should be thrown in.

My experience on reliability,

Metabo
Festool
Bosch
DeWalt/Elu

On ease of use

DeWalt/Elu
Bosch
Metabo
Festool

Cost

Bosch
DeWalt/Elu
Metabo
Festool

Yes I know Elu are no longer around but I still have some.

If I could only buy one brand using the above criteria

Metabo
Festool
DeWalt
Bosch

I have bought several other brands but not been happy with any so far.

 

[Anonymous]

Can I just chip in in support of DeWalt tools? Most of my power tools are DeWalt simply because my local supplier does a great deal in 'factory reworks' at below half price. Then, once you have a few cordless tools, there is a tendancy to stick with the same manufacturer so that all your batteries are interchangable.

I've aways found my DeWalts to be excellent, and I know how to abuse a power tool! I've used all the other makes on occasion, but other than Festo, I can't say that I'd rank them higher than DeWalt.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Alf]

Despite initially agreeing with others that this can't really be done, I see we're actually getting not a bad consensus on the top end of the market at least. Useful; thanks, Adam, for starting the thread.

Cheers, Alf

 

[jobsagooden]

Hilti are running competition to see how old peoples hilti's many are 20 -30 years old being used day in day out.

May be this is best best way in working out your list if some has been using a tool for 20 - 30 years day in day out, and the brand has stayed purely making and selling their own stuff (very sadly impossible) then we will all want to buy it.

 

[Scrit]

Unfortunately even Hilti buy-in. I have a Hilti demolition saw (recipro saw) and even the Hilti rep admitted that these and several other tools were Bosch designs, albeit manufactured by Scintilla in Switzerland.

Scrit

 

[johnnyb]

i only have experience(extensive anyway) of bosch and dewalt. i am generally also a big fan of dewalt(and elu) especially reworks. they seem well built and sturdy and more important accurate at the right price. bosch(blue) are also good and i feel better built than dewalt but at a much greater cost. one example i have a lovely bosch hd combi with worn out batteries. the batteries would cost a fortune to replace. so it sits unused i can buy a rework dewalt for the same price as 2 bosch batteries!!

 

[Noel]

i only have experience(extensive anyway) of bosch and dewalt. i am generally also a big fan of dewalt(and elu) especially reworks. they seem well built and sturdy and more important accurate at the right price. bosch(blue) are also good and i feel better built than dewalt but at a much greater cost. one example i have a lovely bosch hd combi with worn out batteries. the batteries would cost a fortune to replace. so it sits unused i can buy a rework dewalt for the same price as 2 bosch batteries!!

Get the battery packs rebuilt. Lots of companies offer the service. Just DAG.

 

[Adam]

Despite initially agreeing with others that this can't really be done, I see we're actually getting not a bad consensus on the top end of the market at least. Useful; thanks, Adam, for starting the thread.

Cheers, Alf

For a start, there are several more brands than probably I knew about. Slightly deviating the thread - any chance we could get a list going of tools that are manufactured by someone "else".

E.g. the Mafell LO50e

Is made by Festool -

Spot the similarity. As far as I remember, the Mafell is made by Festool

Anyone know any others similarly done?

It might be a nice way to get a more expensive tool "cheaper"...

Adam