Purchasing a self assemble workshop

[transatlantic]

I'm in the process of buying my first house and am finding it difficult to find a suitable property within my price range that have a garage. I've come across quite a few that I really like that lack a garage (which I'd be using as a workshop). So I'm now contemplating the idea of just stick a large shed/workshop in the garden. I'd want something big, along the size of a large single garage and have come across these.

http://www.buyshedsdirect.co.uk/garden- ... e-workshop

of course, I'd really like to build it myself, but lack the skills and capacity for something this large (I'm disabled)

I'd be using it entirely as a workshop. I only have my lathe atm, but would be adding other tools hopefully (bandsaw/tablesaw etc)

What are your thoughts?

- What would the materials alone cost? (just so I can get a general idea of how much I'm paying over)
- A 10 year guarantee doesn't sound like a lot for something like this. Would you agree?
- I assume I can errect this without permission?
- I'd obviously need to add electrics. So is there some standard that I would need to check to make sure that the struture is water tight enough for that?

My thoughts

- I guess it would be very susceptible to break-in.
- I'm hoping it will be sturdy enough, but figure I could purchase some thick plywood to strengthen any walls i plan on adding shelving too

 

[blackrodd]

If I were you, I'd be inclined to keep looking and try and find the ideal house and garage or workshop ready built,
There's quite a lot of work in a new build, garage or man shed, which as you said you would find difficult to partake in,
may be best to avoid, unless of course, you had a good builder or friends in mind that could do the main, if not all of a new build for you.
The 20' x 10' shed looks ok and appears to be good value at £1500. and a good size too.
Don't forger many houses and even estates have a no shed or greenhouse rule and any permitted developments taken away, which means no buildings or alterations at all!
Not knowing the new area, you might end up finding planning or neighbour disputes, etc.
I would most certainly canvas the adjoining and surrounding properties, at the very least just in case the bloke next door is on constant night work and very very big!
But there again, you could be very surprised, as some neighbours can be excellent neighbours!
Regards Rodders

 

[YorkshireMartin]

If at all possible, hold out for a property with a garage. We didn't and it's our biggest regret in terms of housing decisions. We were young and didn't think it would be too much of a problem. 10 years on, it is, and it has been nothing but one massive problem. To be frank, it's ticked (to put it mildly) me off so much, I absolutely hate where we live now, despite the house being new build at the time and large enough for our needs.

Prior to erecting a metal shed about 5 years ago we had no storage for the mower, basic garden hand tools, other hand tools for DIY and tons of silly stuff which you never think about when house buying like roof bars for the car, decorating equipment boxes for newly bought stuff in case it needs to go back. The list is endless. The metal shed was a half measure. If you're a DIY type and don't have a garage or outbuilding, you are not going to be happy long term.

Sorry if I'm telling grandma how to suck eggs but your post struck a chord with me.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

I have bought a log cabin and two sheds from this company http://www.tigersheds.com. If you do buy a shed or log cabin you should factor in insulating it all round before you move a thing into it. Floor, ceiling and walls otherwise you will end up with rusty tools and mouldy timber.

 

[RobinBHM]

If the right property comes along with no garage, bear in mind the planning rules for garden structures and make sure there is suitable space.

The link you gave is for quite a budget structure, but would be fine with additional insulation and lining.

Materials for a workshop that big would cost at least £1500, but for a much more substantial building.

I would budget about £6k for a base, timber workshop and electrics (very rough guide, others may have actual quotes / pricing), to get you a single garage sized timber structure to go with a property without.

 

[artie]

Can you look at one of those before you buy. I would be wary of buying it on just that info.

At £1500 for a 20 by 10 it is appears good value, but the only dimensions given are for the T&G 12mm, which is pretty standard and roof thickness 12mm. It doesn't say 12 mm of what, could be anything.

I would want to know what size the framing is and the floor, what the floor is made of, what the roof is made of, grade of felt.

At £1500 I would expect no more than 50 by 28 framing, possible less, OSB roof, flimsy felt and flimsy floor.

But it's not all bad, if you were prepared to beef up the floor a bit and replace the felt before too long, possibly re enforce the roof and maintain it, there is no reason why it wouldn't last a lot more than 10 years.

 

[Wildman]

Planning permission varies from area to area. A visit to your local planning department will put you right. You will need a solid concrete base. I'd be tempted to creosote the entire building on top of their claimed protection before adding any additional cladding. Door height is low watch out for that. All in all finding the right property makes a lot of difference.

 

[transatlantic]

Can you look at one of those before you buy. I would be wary of buying it on just that info.

I wouldn't purchase one without seeing one first. I'd want to step inside to see how well built it was.

It seems there is a lot more to it than I thought. I hadn't thought about insulation. If I was going to be spending any more than £1500, I think I'd rather just have a purpose built garage. So I guess it's back to the drawing board

 

[Roughcut]

I reckon Robin is near the mark with his estimate of around 6k for the full monty.
It's surprising how much other things (concrete base, decent roofing, insulation, electrics etc.) can add to the final cost.
But these extras will set it aside from being just a draughty, damp shed into a warm and comfortable working environment that should last for years.

 

[Roughcut]

Can you look at one of those before you buy. I would be wary of buying it on just that info.

I wouldn't purchase one without seeing one first. I'd want to step inside to see how well built it was.

It seems there is a lot more to it than I thought. I hadn't thought about insulation. If I was going to be spending any more than £1500, I think I'd rather just have a purpose built garage. So I guess it's back to the drawing board

That price for £1500 doesn't include erection either.
The supplier offers the service for £424.99, so you are knocking on the door of £2000 before doing anything else.
Alternatively you might find someone who will erect it cheaper but to be honest that charge doesn't seem unrealistic in my humble opinion as it will probably be a 2 man job.

 

[artie]

It's surprising how much other things (concrete base, decent roofing, insulation, electrics etc.) can add to the final cost.
But these extras will set it aside from being just a draughty, damp shed into a warm and comfortable working environment that should last for years.

I reckon to do a passable insulation and lining job would probably double the cost.

 

[artie]

The supplier offers the service for £424.99, .

I thought that was extortion when I first looked, but considering it's anywhere, almost, in GB, I suppose it's reasonable.

But I think you could get somebody local to put it up for less than half that.

 

[Curlew]

I would suggest that a really substantial timber floor structure is essential, for the same reason that you would go for a heavy solid workbench. Your insulation should ideally be continuous all round. 25mm of polystyrene under the flooring chipboard. Consider 25mm woodfibre board insulation eg from Wickes for lining the walls. This may save you having to fit lining board. You could well get condensation behind the insulation so be sure not to use anything which can absorb water (this would ruin the insulation properties). Foil backing is very helpful for this, with the foil to the outside, if you use synthetic insulation board like kingspan. You would need a double glazed window and some means of ventilation for intermittent use. Avoid having your window orientated such that the sun will come in as it's difficult to work in high-contrast varying light situations. you want diffuse light. consider the type of heating to use before you choose, as eg portable gas heaters will give off a lot of water vapour, you need to minimise that. electric heating is drier but expensive. many of these measure will need to be considered even if you get a garage / workshop with the house you buy. In that case do all the insulation, wiring and windows to it before you move anything in as it's a nightmare unless the space is clear and empty. and integrate the home alarm, if used, with sensors in your new workshop.

 

[transatlantic]

Thank you for the advice.

 

[MusicMan]

I looked at Tiger Sheds when I was getting a new workshop shed recently - this was for a 12*6 shed to fill a spot in the garden and give me extra room on top of my 16*8 shed. It now houses a table saw, lathe and router table, freeing up that space in the 'bench' shop. Tiger didn't have a model the ideal shape for me, and I eventually bought from www.norfolksheds.co.uk, who had good prices, more robust structure and were very happy to customise it to fit the space - they adjusted a 10x6 model to 12x6 for me at reasonable cost. They also sold it without the floor, as I wanted the solid concrete base for the heavy machines (which I tanked, then covered with 3 mm fibreboard and 25 mm chipboard flooring). Very nice to deal with: try [email protected].

Whatever you do, do not economise on the base, but get a proper concrete slab with damp proof membrane. I don't share the gloom above about shed workshops and insulation. My 16x8 shed I've had since 1993 and it has given good service. I don't have it insulated, but it warms up quickly with a small electric heater. For hobby/home use this is fine. Of course, if you work there commercially on a daily basis that is very different. I need some precautions to keep stuff dry (planes are in drawers, camellia or other oil on iron surfaces) but nothing has spoiled in 23 years, including a period of 7 years that I spent abroad, just covered stuff in oil and grease before I left. What I do regret is that I skimped on the foundations and it has sunk a bit on one side! The new on isn't going anywhere, though!

As for electrics I had a professional run a cable down the garden to the shed and install sufficient lighting and power.

Keith

 

[DTR]

I don't share the gloom above about shed workshops and insulation. My 16x8 shed I've had since 1993 and it has given good service. I don't have it insulated, but it warms up quickly with a small electric heater. For hobby/home use this is fine.

Glad I'm not the only one.

When we were looking for a house, having a garage / workshop was one of my criteria. We ended up buying a house with not one but two garages! A few months in, we found that both leaked like a sieve. A roofer quoted me a grand to replace the roofs; he said himself that it wasn't worth it. We ended up getting rid of the garages and putting up a 16' x 10' shed in their place for £1,500 including a concrete base. I'm happy with the end result.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One of the reasons for insulation is not so much making it pleasant to work in, but to prevent wild temperature swings that will give you dreadful condensation and rust problems.

 

[transatlantic]

I'm a little confused in regard to the insulation thing now. My parents and their neighbours garage looks to be just a single brick wall, where light can be seen around the side door and main door (i.e there are small gaps). And their tools don't show any sign of rust?

Without insulation - how much of a difference would there be between wooden shed walls and single brick walls?

 

[artie]

I'm a little confused in regard to the insulation thing

Join the club.

Have you done a search of the forum, there are numerous threads on condensation, insulation etc.

Problem is , I am just as confused after reading numerous threads and web sites, as I was before.

 

[Curlew]

Nothing that I advised about insulation was intended to be 'gloom'. only the user can decide how much time he intends to spend in his workshop and this will be the main criterion for deciding whether to insulate. A 20'x10' shed calculated as a simple cuboid shape, and insulated all round with 25mm of woodfibre board has a heat loss calculated at 280W. The same shed without insulation has a heat loss of 7.6kW (figures assume temp difference of 10deg between inside and outdoor, and neglect other gains and losses for simplicity). For every 10 hours use there is a loss of 73kWh of heat energy by the uninsulated shed compared with the insulated one, costing approx £11 extra, for electricity, every 10hours. In practice the user of the uninsulated shed will use less heat, settling for a lower temperature (choosing to be less comfortable because of the very high cost of heating an uninsulated space) Depending on how many hours a week the user plans to spend in the workshop, and how comfortable he wishes to be, he can make rough calculations from this to decide whether it is worth insulating. There are other ways of cutting the cloth, too complex to discuss here. For myself it is definitely worth planning and installing insulation all round, and a suitable thermostatic heating system, for use only when in the workshop. (if the space is not to be heated there is no benefit in insulation). I hope this helps to clarify the question of insulation in real practical terms. it's not primarily about avoiding rusting tools but is about comfort versus cost. Transatlantic, you can assume an uninsulated block wall is about the same as a timber shed, it leaks heat like a sieve, and apply the savings I have given you, for either of them. Any help?