Product Technical Instructions and Marketing attitudes.

[CHJ]

Viewing the problems had by mpcpba with his Record Power CL4 - problems fitting the VSLK motor I passed the comment:-

You get the impression that the marketing in a lot of companies are happy to send out product notes/instructions with errors rather than re-spend on reprint or add an addendum, almost as if they rely on the fact that few read them so the net negative vibe is worth the hit.

But I find the frustrations with the lack of professionalism or care with the 'minor' details very frustrating with this 'end of marketing' details.

Record are far from being alone in this and it's very frustrating when you see glaring errors that you have bothered to point out and even communicated the correction details needed still being displayed way beyond a new packaging decision so it's not even a production batch legacy.

I put it in the same negative publicity category as two instances I've had in the last week.
1. Broadband is down, so ISP sends all engineer appointment details etc. via automated e-mail together with on-line FAQ links to check. (picked emails up on mobile 'phone whilst shopping 24 hrs later) Engineer admits he often gets contact details for customer on none working line number.

2. On-line seller (very large worldwide brand name) accepts multiple item order and lists it in account details as outstanding because payment not received. (BB went down during payment submission) order is viewable so are outstanding payment details but no way to trigger re-submission of payment, "it's a completed order sir can't be altered, no it can't be deleted it's a customers order, and no we can't stop the automated e-mails asking what we have done to upset you because you have not paid for outstanding order in the checkout awaiting to go to dispatch".

 

[RogerS]

Chas, You've touched a raw nerve there as far as I'm concerned. It seems to me that modern IT systems are designed by luck as the concept of any form of joined up thinking/consistency between what is sent out in the post ....eg Your Customer ID is....to what you are asked to enter into the online screen...please enter your User Number/to considering 'what if.... as in your case with the online seller.

It's an age thing, I am convinced, because if you pass comment to anyone under the age of, probably 30, they just look blankly at you as if to say 'What are you on about? Isn't it always like this? Look, I mean, man, isn't this Facebook thing fabulous.....

Oh yes, the concept of Change Management seems to have been abandoned.

 

[Robbo3]

It's a mind set.

They either can't admit that they might be at fault or they are arrogant enough to believe that it doesn't or won't matter.

 

[Rhossydd]

1. Broadband is down, so ISP sends all engineer appointment details etc. via automated e-mail together with on-line FAQ links to check. (picked emails up on mobile 'phone whilst shopping 24 hrs later) Engineer admits he often gets contact details for customer on none working line number.

This is a tricky one.
What else can they do ? send a letter ? Most broadband issues get fixed so quickly that would be a waste of time and money.
As you said, you picked up the details via a phone connection. I think having a second access to email via phone is now very common and for many a preferred method of communication.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

But I find the frustrations with the lack of professionalism or care with the 'minor' details very frustrating with this 'end of marketing' details.

I've often thought the same...and fantasised there is a business opportunity for a "manual management" service with a given specialisation or multiple areas of specialisation. If a 3rd party could simply outsource the production and maintenance of the technical manuals/data sheets et al they could provide a step improvement in the quality. They would monitor all the channels for feedback from consumers and be responsive enough to submit relevant errata in a timely fashion.

But the 64,000 dollar question is would a record or Axminster pay for such a service? I've always found its the rebadgers where the goods are made in the Far East the worst offenders. American made goods often have superb manuals, veritable books in fact. I guess its a cultural/education/quality standards thing to say nothing of the translation challenges.

Robert Pirsig, in Zen and the art....always maintained that the technical manual gets written by the "biggest goof off" in the factory! In other words, all the competent engineering talent is busy doing important stuff, the last turkey in the shop gets to write the manual.

Does seem an odd attitude when you consider it's often the first material to be read by the consumer, especially those machines aimed at the hobby market where mechanical/engineering expertise is likely to be thinner and therefore more help needed.

But it does annoy me too and I know I could do a way better job......is there a business there...I wonder???

 

[Rhossydd]

But the 64,000 dollar question is would a record or Axminster pay for such a service?

To be fair to Axminster, I've found their manuals to be very good. They all seem to be written in the UK and make sense. Also credit to them for freely making them easily available on their sales pages so you can see what you're letting yourself into before purchase.

The problem seems to be how detailed do you need manuals to be ? Experienced people just need to know if there's anything unusual or unintuitive about assembly. Others expect to be told where every single nut and bolt goes and then how to use the item from the absolute basics as well.

 

[sunnybob]

But I find the frustrations with the lack of professionalism or care with the 'minor' details very frustrating with this 'end of marketing' details.

Robert Pirsig, in Zen and the art....always maintained that the technical manual gets written by the "biggest goof off" in the factory! In other words, all the competent engineering talent is busy doing important stuff, the last turkey in the shop gets to write the manual.

Does seem an odd attitude when you consider it's often the first material to be read by the consumer, especially those machines aimed at the hobby market where mechanical/engineering expertise is likely to be thinner and therefore more help needed.

?

Nah, I was always taught that "when all else fails, read the instructions" (hammer)
I guess the manuals are designed for folk like me.

(but when I DO read the instructions, yes it would be nice to be able to understand them) =D>

 

[Wuffles]

Chas, You've touched a raw nerve there as far as I'm concerned. It seems to me that modern IT systems are designed by luck as the concept of any form of joined up thinking/consistency between what is sent out in the post ....eg Your Customer ID is....to what you are asked to enter into the online screen...please enter your User Number/to considering 'what if.... as in your case with the online seller.

It's an age thing, I am convinced, because if you pass comment to anyone under the age of, probably 30, they just look blankly at you as if to say 'What are you on about? Isn't it always like this? Look, I mean, man, isn't this Facebook thing fabulous.....

Oh yes, the concept of Change Management seems to have been abandoned.

Whilst I agree with most of that, I'd disagree that Change Management has been abandoned. I'd argue that things used to get "done" before the advent of Change Management and that the root of most risky fixes is now too far beyond the scope of some non-technical change manager being fed BS by non-techy managers of departments.

So when it comes to systems integration, it may be the case that a CM department were the ones who decided it was too scary to fully integrate and therefore we end up with legacy customer IDs that have nothing to do with user numbers and whatnot.

Just an opinion, from a disgruntled ex-IT person living in an era where we were the unsung heroes who actually fixed things without having a meeting about it.

 

[RogerS]

I have a different view of CM, to be honest, and have always seen it as a 'force for the good'. In my experience, CM never had the veto on whether or not systems or changes went in but were involved in making it work properly.

Companies like Lloyds Bank, John Lewis Partnership cards, Marbles and Waitrose to name but a few haven't a clue about it.

 

[Wuffles]

I have a different view of CM, to be honest, and have always seen it as a 'force for the good'. In my experience, CM never had the veto on whether or not systems or changes went in but were involved in making it work properly.

Companies like Lloyds Bank, John Lewis Partnership cards, Marbles and Waitrose to name but a few haven't a clue about it.

So you're working at the CM end of things? In which case, our discussion can end right there - we'll never see eye to eye on it

John Lewis Partnership Cards make me laugh, for fraudulent activity, they post you a form to fill out (might be out of date information). And everyone remembers the BSoD on Lloyds cashpoints.

Timewarp!

 

[RogerS]

I have a different view of CM, to be honest, and have always seen it as a 'force for the good'. In my experience, CM never had the veto on whether or not systems or changes went in but were involved in making it work properly.

Companies like Lloyds Bank, John Lewis Partnership cards, Marbles and Waitrose to name but a few haven't a clue about it.

So you're working at the CM end of things? In which case, our discussion can end right there - we'll never see eye to eye on it

It was one of the many hats I wore at one point or another in my various careers !!

John Lewis Partnership Cards make me laugh, for fraudulent activity, they post you a form to fill out (might be out of date information). And everyone remembers the BSoD on Lloyds cashpoints.

Timewarp!

I can go one better. Tried to log into my JLP car account only to get a 'Sorry, we can't log you in....please call.....quote error 6005'. Now when you get this sort of message, ones immediate thoughts are 'Oh s**t, my card has been compromised (again)' and so you ring them up.

'You won't be able to log in because we're doing system maintenance'.

'So don't you think a more sensible message on your website would be to say that? Rather than make me worry about the security of my card ? Rather than make both of us waste our time?"

'We don't do that for security reasons'. WTF ? That has to be the most inane response yet.

 

[Wuffles]

Mind you, they can be as backwards as they like whilst they still dish out JL vouchers instead of "points". We built a £75k extension predominantly using the JLP Mastercard. Imagine the vouchers we got back for using that

 

[RogerS]

Mind you, they can be as backwards as they like whilst they still dish out JL vouchers instead of "points". We built a £75k extension predominantly using the JLP Mastercard. Imagine the vouchers we got back for using that

Oh yes! We use the BAAmex card. Been Club to JFK and back on Concorde, Club to India return twice, Club to Tokyo and return from HK twice! I have a Companion Voucher (doubles your Airmiles) sitting there just begging to be used!