Private sales using Paypal - warning

[stewart]

Hi all
I put my Record lathe up for sale here a few months ago, and it was also advertised in my woodturning club's newsletter and website.
After no interest for months, I'd rather got used to having two lathes!
However, I was contacted by email by a potential buyer earlier this month. The only question I was asked about the lathe was how much it would cost and could payment be made by Paypal. No need to arrange shipping, the buyer would have the lathe collected. I replied by email to this first email and the potential buyer seemed interested and asked for some photos. I sent photos and the reply I got was, yes, I'll take it. What's your paypal email address?
I had had some earlier concerns about the sale as none of the emails actually seemed enthusiastic about woodturning! I decided to check out using paypal for private sales where the item sold is picked up by the buyer and not sent by the seller. There have been cases where a seller has had the sale money of an item taken back from their paypal account after the buyer has been and collected the item because the buyer has then claimed they did not get the item! Any items not posted/despatched by the buyer mean that Paypal's buyer protection does not apply...

I decided therefore to send the following email to the buyer:

Hi

Ok - I'll leave the packing to your shipping company.

I don't want to cause any offence, but I am a little wary about selling something online to somebody I've not met before or seen in person. As you are having the lathe collected, I can't avail myself of paypal's Buyer Protection, so we will need to use a different payment method - are you happy with this?

If you gave me an idea of where you are I could consider delivery myself, for the cost of petrol and time.

Let me know.

The potential buyer has now gone very quiet...silent, in fact! Perhaps my email was too offensive? But better to cause some offence than lose out on the lathe and the sale price!

 

[LancsRick]

I always get a signed printout when I have people collect from me in person.

 

[JohnPW]

The simple rule is only accept cash if the the buyer collects. If the buyer sends someone else to collect, then also accept cash only.

Paypal, and also Ebay, will only accept a tracked method of delivery, ie a signature on delivery by a courier/postman, as proof that a seller has sent the goods.

 

[deema]

Perhaps it's just wording, but I believe you are the seller rather than the buyer, and reading your description it would appear that by collecting the item the buyer is not protected by PayPal and therefore would not have been able to make a claim against you. By emailing as you have you appear to have given the buyer the PayPal protection and left yourself vulnerable.

 

[stewart]

I am indeed the seller - it should have read that I can't avail myself of Seller protection....my understanding is that the buyer is protected if they pick up the item but the seller isn't

 

[Homerjh]

if collecting then cash only, and if they insist with paypal then just refuse.

you can generally extract paypal cash to your bank account within 2 hours (max!) so no excuse now that 'i have £x in my paypal i want to use' as they can cash out quickly.

thats why i avoid ebay selling, that and the sky high fees that they charge..

 

[Water-Mark]

You could alway ask for payment by paypal gift.

Buyer has no rights then

 

[RogerP]

If a buyer wants to collect then it must be strictly cash only. Really!

 

[brianhabby]

If someone is collecting an item I am selling, then I always insist on cash when they collect and I've never had a problem. This is non-negotiable and I did once sell an item on eBay that was to be collected and despite the listing clearly stating that I require cash on collection, he paid with PayPal. I simply refunded him and sent a polite email explaining my position and referring him to the eBay listing, and he was fine about it and brought cash.

There is an interesting example of how things can go badly wrong on this very forum here, albeit eight years ago.

regards

Brian

 

[AJB Temple]

Paypal has very little UK regulation. They are also in the process of changing their terms and conditions again which they claim makes it faster and easier but when you see the changes you may feel that they are somewhat negative and increasingly restrictive. https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/u ... ocale.x=GB

It is interesting that they have now given themselves the right to use sellers' intellectual property, reduced the range of goods over which their limited protections apply and now insist that use of their service is not actively discouraged. The T&Cs are draconian in fact in my view. I am not a fan.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We were defrauded by a Ukrainian hacking our PayPal, and PayPal didn't want to know. Swmbo is savvy in these areas (having worked in a bank for 30+ years) so reported it to the bank the Credit card payment was drawn on after having reported it to PayPal within minutes of it happening and also to the firm which sold the goods, neither of whom were remotely interested. PayPal were emailed several times over a week. We got the payment refunded from the bank and PayPal emailed about three weeks later with a stock "we understand you are unhappy with our service ..." type response. We no longer have a PayPal account.

 

[giantbeat]

paypal is a tricky but often necessary evil when selling goods, esp for small business, i use it for business & private sales, when you use it almost hourly you get very savvy with it very quickly.

i see loads of people getting caught out when its a private sale & they are just selling the occasional odds & end.

the basic rule of thumb for private sales are, unless the client is collecting in person insist on payment by "friends & family" or you leave yourself wide open to the hundreds of fraudsters who occupy places like pre-loved & gumtree and who also scour selling sites, facebook & the other free adds.

using friends & family is bending paypals rules a little as you dont get charged selling fees, so if paypal twig you are using it to accept payment for goods then they will lock your account down or remove that facility, its intended for personal transfers only.... so dont let anyone put "payment for etc" in the paypal msg.... if a buyer is collecting in person they should have no issue doing this as they can inspect the item. if they do have an issue, end the deal, from their standing its no different to them paying you in cash or bank transfer, the paypal seller & buyer protection were originally put in place based on the fact 96% of the trading is done on goods to be delivered/posted basis.... thats not so much the case now.

we sell items worth between a few quid & thousands of pounds, and the only way i will ever let anyone send a 3rd party to collect
is if:
1) the collection is being carried out by a known established courier, collection company you can check up on & call
2) they pay 100% upfront before collection is arranged via bank transfer, or paypal F&F. payment has to be made a full 5 working days before collection is due to take place (to stop potential fraudsters pulling the money back via the bank). if they are not happy about this we wave them good bye.

i have used paypal since 1999 or 2000, had a few issues here and there, no more than i have with the bank, i have 2 company paypal accounts & a private one, you just have to keep savvy, use common sense & you should be fine. if at any point your gut feeling is not good, just walk away from it. its amazing how many people say, they cant collect, cant pay cash until you tell them "no deal", days later they collect & pay cash.

 

[AJB Temple]

Good post. Thanks. I still don't like PP but it is good to hear a balanced view.