Primus jointer

[JesseM]

I am trying to joint this board with a Primus jointer and it doesn't seem to making good contact with the wood. I checked the flatness and it does seem a bit concave before and after the mouth. I'm just wondering if thats the problem. It seems more apt to bite into the board near the end. Almost impossible to get it to do anything in the middle of the board.

The sole is lignum vitae with some sort of finish. Any special consideration here or can I just sand it down on something flat?

 

[Philly]

J
Sounds like you need to flatten the sole of your plane a little. Wooden planes tend to move a little with time and humidity.
Withdraw the blade (but keep it tensioned) and rub it back and forth on some 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surace (like the bed of a surface planer or cast iron table of a saw)
After a few strokes you should be able to see where the sole is out. Don't take too much off (it's easy to go too far) and test it regularly. Once it will take full length shavings you are back in the game!
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Brent]

Just a question, definately not a statement based on knowledge, but I seem to remember reading that Japanese wooden planes are supposed to be slightly concave before and after the mouth. If this is true, is it different for European wooden planes?

Brent

 

[Philly]

Brent
Yes, there is a way of making the soles concave (the toe, front and rear of mouth are all in the same plane, though). This is an advanced method, though. Flattening the sole (whether wood or metal) is the way to go for decent performance.
Cheers
Philly

 

[JesseM]

Thanks! In this case the concavity is not in the same plane. At least when I checked it last night with an aluminum straight edge.

 

[bugbear]

The sole is lignum vitae with some sort of finish. Any special consideration here or can I just sand it down on something flat?

It definitely sounds like a warped sole. Check VERY carefully for twist as well as end-to-end straightness.

I would not recommend the sand paper on a flat surface approach. If you do believe this works (many people claim it does) I suggest a trial with a piece of wood first.

Clarke and Williams http://www.planemaker.com recommend this:

Tuning is simply carefully planing, scraping or lapping away these humps. Care should be taken to never remove more than necessary. High spots on the sole of light colored wood can be marked by running the plane over carbon paper on plate glass or a surface plate. A fresh newspaper can be used instead of carbon paper but the marked areas will be lighter. A light dusting of the glass with blue chalk can be used for planes of dark wood.

BugBear

 

[JesseM]

The sole is lignum vitae with some sort of finish. Any special consideration here or can I just sand it down on something flat?

It definitely sounds like a warped sole. Check VERY carefully for twist as well as end-to-end straightness.

I would not recommend the sand paper on a flat surface approach. If you do believe this works (many people claim it does) I suggest a trial with a piece of wood first.

Clarke and Williams http://www.planemaker.com recommend this:

Tuning is simply carefully planing, scraping or lapping away these humps. Care should be taken to never remove more than necessary. High spots on the sole of light colored wood can be marked by running the plane over carbon paper on plate glass or a surface plate. A fresh newspaper can be used instead of carbon paper but the marked areas will be lighter. A light dusting of the glass with blue chalk can be used for planes of dark wood.

BugBear

I've never planed lignum vitae before, but I heard its pretty tough. I may try the scraper first and see how that goes. I have to locate a flat source in either case. This thing is 2 foot long and heavy and I don't have anything that long right now.

Thanks

 

[Colin C]

lignum vitae is very hard going and does have crossed grain, so scraping would be your best bet

 

[MikeW]

...Clarke and Williams http://www.planemaker.com recommend this:

Tuning is simply carefully planing, scraping or lapping away these humps....

Hi BB.

While I know Steve Knight laps on sandpaper, and I have done the same, do you know what the Boys in Arkansas use to lap, albeit carefully, the soles of planes?

Thanks, Mike

 

[Horst Hohoff]

Hello,
Planing lignum vitae is definitely not an easy thing to do, but a lot depends on how your plane is tuned. I had the honour to try DC's #5 1/2 on a jointer with a lignum sole. And it did a good job due to a blade with a back bevel. I can't remember how many ° the back bevel had, it might have been 20° but I'm not sure.

 

[bugbear]

...Clarke and Williams http://www.planemaker.com recommend this:

Tuning is simply carefully planing, scraping or lapping away these humps....

Hi BB.

While I know Steve Knight laps on sandpaper, and I have done the same, do you know what the Boys in Arkansas use to lap, albeit carefully, the soles of planes?

Thanks, Mike

Steve Knight takes for more precautions than most people when "lapping"

I have no idea what C&W do to make their soles flat.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

lignum vitae is very hard going and does have crossed grain, so scraping would be your best bet

Yep:

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 50#message

BugBear (who was making Alf's #043 fence at the time

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/album/ ... at=0&pos=4

 

[MikeW]

Steve Knight takes for more precautions than most people when "lapping"

It is simply done on a large piece of plate steel. At least that is what he used the times I have visited him--he lives reasonably close.

A piece of 80 or 120 grit paper from a belt sander is the coarse grit if I remember correctly. A couple different grits. He works very quickly. This follows an electric jointer that is set for a very light pass.

When I have done it, I used a wing from my PM 54A jointer and the same type of paper temporarily fastened to the surface.

One does need to work with care. One does need to supply even pressure. But it isn't any different than lapping a metal plane using abrasive grit. They do not need to be perfect as in the scraped sole a machinist could perform.

One shoud never take more off than is necessary. If a plane requires too much to be taken in order to flatten, it is a simply task to add a sole plate.

Take care, Mike
who just has a different view of what is sufficient.

 

[JesseM]

It is simply done on a large piece of plate steel. At least that is what he used the times I have visited him--he lives reasonably close.

Is plate steel flat enough? And if so what thickness, like 1/4"? The last time I flattened the sole of a plane I used a 12"x12" marble tile. For this plane I need something much longer.

 

[MikeW]

I would say that "off the shelf" plate steel is not flat enough. Just reporting what I *remember* Steve using. It's a tallish steel table.

Like I mentioned, I used a cast wing on my jointer. While I am certain it is not perfectly flat, it is flat enough. I sold my 'lectric jointer last year. Since then I simply applied a cut belt from my 48" belt sander directly to my benchtop--and it's flat enough too.

Wasn't it Frid who simply used a large belt sander? Now that takes more technique than a piece of abrasive on a [relatively] flat surface.

If I didn't have a bench I could trust, I would take a board and flatten it via any means available, attach the abrasive to it, place it on a bench or table top and have at it. Use light, even pressure. Move through a few grits. Use pencil lines frequently to help guide the process.

Take care, Mike

 

[JesseM]

I would say that "off the shelf" plate steel is not flat enough. Just reporting what I *remember* Steve using. It's a tallish steel table.

Like I mentioned, I used a cast wing on my jointer. While I am certain it is not perfectly flat, it is flat enough. I sold my 'lectric jointer last year. Since then I simply applied a cut belt from my 48" belt sander directly to my benchtop--and it's flat enough too.

Wasn't it Frid who simply used a large belt sander? Now that takes more technique than a piece of abrasive on a [relatively] flat surface.

If I didn't have a bench I could trust, I would take a board and flatten it via any means available, attach the abrasive to it, place it on a bench or table top and have at it. Use light, even pressure. Move through a few grits. Use pencil lines frequently to help guide the process.

Take care, Mike

I have a piece of 1/2" MDF. Do you think it sufficient to lay that on the workshop table to prevent any flexing from the weight of the plane.

 

[MikeW]

...
I have a piece of 1/2" MDF. Do you think it sufficient to lay that on the workshop table to prevent any flexing from the weight of the plane.

If I had any MDF about I would use it. Plenty flat enough for honing plane blades using goopy diamond paste :lol: That was for Alf...

A piece of scrap laminate counter top form a sink cut out may well be and those are generally tossed. Float glass. Any of those should be fine.

I would make sure that the MDF itself lays flat. 1/2" MDF can conform to an uneven surface, so it does need to be laid upon a flat surface itself. A kitchen counter top, table saw, etc. Probably even a dining room table...

Take care, Mike

 

[kygaloot]

I have used sandpaper on a piece of 1/2" thick glass, 36" long to flatten many wooden planes with no problems whatsoever.

I do have a jointer in need of tuning that has some twist and I will address the twist first with appropriately located, light passes with another plane and then finish with sandpaper.

 

[JesseM]

Thanks everybody for all the advice.

 

[bugbear]

Steve Knight takes for more precautions than most people when "lapping"

It is simply done on a large piece of plate steel. At least that is what he used the times I have visited him--he lives reasonably close.

Is this a new thing? here's his report of 2004...

http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.ne ... read=39556

In the thread Steve points out the problems of uneven abrasive wear, which is why he wants such an enormous plate.

BugBear