Pricing help!

[doctor Bob]

Also, I have to ask; one man-day to make and paint 3 cabinets - really? #impressed

Not to mention ...

3 bespoke 19mm thick maple shaker doors and installed a 240v plinth heater underneath.
I've given the cabinets 3 coats of white paint and spray lacquered the doors
Charlie

If they're from scratch, then no wayyyy one day!

I'd be gutted if I couldn't turn that around in a day, I suppose I have a good set up.

 

[RobinBHM]

There's a trade off between what a self employed carpenter can charge for making 3 straight forward cabinets and how long it takes.

A guy in a home workshop without a quick set up system may take a long time to make and spray a few cabinets, but that doesnt necessarily mean he can charge for his full day rate. The job is only worth what the market will bear.

However although a high end bespoke kitchen company, may be able to make such a job quickly, the margins built in for sales commission, surveying etc probably mean a small job is going to be a lot of money, if indeed a such a company could even be bothered with a small job.

The main advice to the OP is always agree a price first. Avoiding it at the beginning puts you at the mercy of the customer. Its also unfair to the customer, if he has £300 in mind and your price is £1000 -why should he pay more....

Hopefully you will come back and let us know how much you did get paid!

Why not ask on this forum for advice on pricing? -its always difficult at the start knowing how much to charge, you dont have a history of knowing how much jobs cost, or what they are actually worth.

 

[profchris]

The OP has two separate questions:

1. How to price for the future.

2. What to charge for this particular job.

There has been plenty of advice about 1, but not much about 2.

I think on this job, all he can do is to go to his neighbour and explain what the materials cost and how long the work took. I suspect the neighbour will be shocked at the cost of materials, just because ready made stuff is so cheap, but you never know. The important thing on this one is to end up with a price which the neighbour can live with, because word of mouth is really important for future work. If you end up charging materials cost only, that might be worth it to keep your neighbour happy and spreading the good word about you. But I wouldn't offer that - I'd say something like "The materials cost £500 and it took me 5 days labour, so I should really be charging around £1,500. But we never discussed the price, and so I need to know how you feel about that." If the neighbour turns pale, make it clear you want to make him happy and ask how much he thought he would be asked to pay. Then you have a top/bottom price within which to discuss the final price.

For future pricing, it's clearly essential to work out materials cost first. As a customer, I'd appreciate some idea of materials cost because it tells me why the price is what it is. I had my house rewired a couple of years back and was initially taken aback by the cost, mainly because in my head I have the prices I paid for DIY stuff 20+ years ago. The estimate told me what materials were likely to be, and with that and the time involved I could see I was getting a fair price.

 

[doctor Bob]

Or it's a reality check, he is a carpenter, he's fairly proficient, therefore I assume he is hoping to make a living from cabinet making and carpentry. The reality is he needs to speed up, not charge double...

I suspect there's room for both. Yes, he probably needs to speed up, but he absolutely needs to be charging more. Seem to recall you writing once, Bob, that when you were starting out doors took you ages because you didn't have enough clamps. I have a small workshop - there's not much I can do while paint is drying. I can make up for this by charging more, because London.

So, a slightly different game when you're a one-man-band, don't you,think?

Also, I have to ask; one man-day to make and paint 3 cabinets - really? #impressed

Cheers, Peter

That's a fair point, however I'd be a bit gutted to know I was paying someone to wait for paint to dry.

By the way, I did say one man day, not in one day. I tend to run 5 plus jobs at once. Lot easier to make 100 doors at a time. 4 sider, speed sander, sprayshop, etc it would be an easy day. Anyway as someone said, I wouldn't be interested in a job like this so I'll butt out of it. People seem to take no notice of me anyway

 

[pcb1962]

Or it's a reality check, he is a carpenter, he's fairly proficient, therefore I assume he is hoping to make a living from cabinet making and carpentry. The reality is he needs to speed up, not charge double...

I suspect there's room for both. Yes, he probably needs to speed up, but he absolutely needs to be charging more. Seem to recall you writing once, Bob, that when you were starting out doors took you ages because you didn't have enough clamps. I have a small workshop - there's not much I can do while paint is drying. I can make up for this by charging more, because London.

So, a slightly different game when you're a one-man-band, don't you,think?

Also, I have to ask; one man-day to make and paint 3 cabinets - really? #impressed

Cheers, Peter

That's a fair point, however I'd be a bit gutted to know I was paying someone to wait for paint to dry.

By the way, I did say one man day, not in one day. I tend to run 5 plus jobs at once. Lot easier to make 100 doors at a time. 4 sider, speed sander, sprayshop, etc it would be an easy day. Anyway as someone said, I wouldn't be interested in a job like this so I'll butt out of it. People seem to take no notice of me anyway

One of the features of this forum I appreciate most is the way that seasoned woodworking professionals are prepared to give hobbyists and newcomers an insight into their world. Please continue to do so Bob, Peter and others.

 

[deema]

Bob is spot on, and highlights the level of competition that there is. In essence, the customer had a requirement and the objective is to produce a high quality solution in which you make money. I know that seems obvious, however, what it implies is that you consider where you add your value. Bob, who I suspect buys material in bulk and has sophisticated machines and a team of professionals can make the base cabinet cheaper than either buying them or a one man band can make them. However, he won’t be interested in the smaller jobs.

To tackle the job outlined an alternative approach could have been to buy standard units from say Howdens ready assembled. Custom make the doors and face frames and install. This would allow everything to be done in the timescale suggested by Bob and probably for a lower material price than was achieved by making everything. In this case the added value is achieved by making only the bits the customer really sees and fitting them well. It’s very easy to think that you have to make everything if it’s wood. I’m fairly certain that could in this scenario change at say £200/ day or £300 labour for the 1.5 days work.

 

[ColeyS1]

People seem to take no notice of me anyway

Did you spot this thread Bob ?
viewtopic.php?t=107763

I think it looks a smart tidy job. It costs what it costs. I assume you're not vat registered so the client won't need to pay an additional 20% other larger companies may charge. Wood and materials aren't cheap, nothing is anymore. Unless they're completely out of touch with what things cost then they shouldn't be surprised with the bill.

Friends, family and favours for friends of friends should always be approached with caution. I did a favour for an elderly member of my family. It was floor to ceiling built in wardrobes about 8ft long I think. When she asked me how much I stupidly said, well the sheets alone were 300 quid the stain, door furniture etc were all extra on top of that, just give me what you think is a fair price. Cut a long story short I earned about £3.50 per hour for my trouble. :lol: - never again !!!! As you can expect she was delighted with her wardrobe,I never did anymore work for her.

Unless you're working for some extremely wealthy it's always worth doing a few quick calculations and giving them a ball park figure. A 40% upfront deposit is also a good idea so atleast you can have some kind of commitment.
Sunnybobs advice is good when it comes to giving the bill. You've worked hard that's what it cost, end of story.
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[doctor Bob]

People seem to take no notice of me anyway

Did you spot this thread Bob ?
viewtopic.php?t=107763

I did, he sounds like a decent chap, thoroughly nice fellow and I imagine he is incredibly handsome as well.

 

[ColeyS1]

People seem to take no notice of me anyway

Did you spot this thread Bob ?
viewtopic.php?t=107763

I did, he sounds like a decent chap, thoroughly nice fellow and I imagine he is incredibly handsome as well.

Dunno Bob. It's a job to tell all that from a phone conversation. I guess if he was willing to help there's a good chance he's a kind caring and considerate lover :lol:

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Char]

Thank you sunnybob

They came back from holiday today and were really please with the work and the price.

The reason it took so long was because I'd never done it before and my table saw is too small to cut panels down. I'll defo get them machined up before hand in future.

All part of the learning experience. I will do it quicker next time and charge more competently.

 

[MikeG.]

That's great........but what was the price you charged?

 

[Char]

I went to £850 including the sparkies rate.

I understood I should've done it a day or so faster. However, not in one day because I'm on planet earth.

I will definitely agree a price beforehand in future. Put it down to experience.

Thanks to those who helped

 

[Chip shop]

I went to £850 including the sparkies rate.

I understood I should've done it a day or so faster. However, not in one day because I'm on planet earth.

I will definitely agree a price beforehand in future. Put it down to experience.

Thanks to those who helped

Soz, I compiled a really long winded (but hopefully informative) reply to this thread then the forum S/W decided to loose it for me!

The rub of it was I could do the making in a day and possibly shoot a coat of primer. The painting would take another day (although I'd be doing other stuff inbetween) and I'd allow a day for fitting. I'd add my workshop time then allow for rent, rates, insurance, fuel, my massive crystal meth habit and anything else I can think of, then my price would have come in at £1,650 + contigency of £200 that I may have knocked off if they didn't have sticky carpets.

I'm a chippy that knocks together the the odd built in. Don't listen to me but do listen to the likes of Dr Bob (and many others on here) who make cabs all the time. Their workflow is going to be pretty efficient. Draw a rod, make a cut list and cut components. Don't mess about dry fitting and leaning on your bench, admiring your work.

 

[Char]

I went to £850 including the sparkies rate.

I understood I should've done it a day or so faster. However, not in one day because I'm on planet earth.

I will definitely agree a price beforehand in future. Put it down to experience.

Thanks to those who helped

Soz, I compiled a really long winded (but hopefully informative) reply to this thread then the forum S/W decided to loose it for me!

The rub of it was I could do the making in a day and possibly shoot a coat of primer. The painting would take a futher day (although I'd be doing other stuff inbetween) and I'd allow a day for fitting. I'd add my workshop time then allow for rent, rates, insurance, fuel, my massive crystal meth habit and anything else I can think of, then my price would have come in at £1,650 + contigency of £200 that I may have knocked off if they didn't have sticky carpets.

I'm a chippy that knocks together the the odd built in. Don't listen to me but do listen to the likes of Dr Bob (and many others on here) who make cabs all the time. Their workflow is going to be pretty efficient. Draw a rod, make a cut list and cut components. Don't mess about dry fitting and leaning on your bench, admiring your work.

Thanks a lot my friend.

I'm willing to listen to anyone who wants to help.

Someone telling me how quick and brilliant they are isn't helpful however.

All done now though. I can get hammered at the cricket on Sunday.

Appreciate your message

 

[doctor Bob]

Someone telling me how quick and brilliant they are isn't helpful however.

and handsome and witty .................. my wife thinks I'm a thicky and she is probably correct. Brilliant hey, I shall go and tell her I have got too big for my own boots.

 

[Chip shop]

Someone telling me how quick and brilliant they are isn't helpful however.

and handsome and witty .................. my wife thinks I'm a thicky and she is probably correct. Brilliant hey, I shall go and tell her I have got too big for my own boots.

And short dumpy blue legs & a rubbish hat.

 

[Adam9453]

Most people tend to get multiple quotes and often will tell you what they are, assuming you're willing to ask.
That is a good way to judge the actual going rate in your area for a given spec job.
Typically you need to start out cheap to draw work without an established reputation then progressively increase your prices as demand increases.
If in doubt, ask for help on here.

 

[whiskywill]

I can get hammered at the cricket on Sunday.

Slow at cabinet making AND a cricket fan. I 'm afraid there is no hope left for you. Why not apply for the X Factor? (hammer)

 

[Jamster21]

Gents - just sticking a toe in the water and all that. Much appreciate being able to 'evesdrop' on all the advice flying backwards and forwards here. Its acting as both an inspiration and a reality check for someone who has access to a hopefully productive marketplace for 'passing' trade for small pieces of work and in the long term the odd small commission for what I can make in my spare time... So please do all keep talking...

 

[Char]

I can get hammered at the cricket on Sunday.

Slow at cabinet making AND a cricket fan. I 'm afraid there is no hope left for you. Why not apply for the X Factor? (hammer)

Some of South Wales' finest shanter right there.