Power tenon cutters

[Froggy]

I'd like to make use of a lot of green wood that I have access to and these http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... k_code=as1 would be very useful, but are quite expensive. Does anyone know either a) where I could buy them cheaper or b) an alternative (and cheaper) method of making the tenons...without putting them on a lathe?

 

[Joe]

You could use the Veritas Dowel Cutters. APTC sell them here.

Joel

 

[Froggy]

Thanks Joe, they look like they'd work with the smaller jobs, shame they don't go up to 2".

 

[xy mosian]

Now I'm sure I've seen something like that designed to be driven by a swing brace. Square tang and all that. If only I could remember where!!!!

Still looking,

OOO! Perhaps a 'green' woodworker could help.

xy

 

[jasonB]

an alternative (and cheaper) method of making the tenons

Draw knife, its the way they used to be done

Jason

 

[Froggy]

OOO! Perhaps a 'green' woodworker could help.
xy

That's what I was hoping.

The draw knife is a bit too slow for me. Plus I very clumsy with knives :?

 

[Russell]

Thats a veritas power tenon cutter they do 8 sizes from 5/8" up to 2" the 22 are £9250 the cheapest is £73.95 replacement blades are available at £16.35. Any Brimarc dealer will be able to get them. If you want me info and prices drop me a PM

 

[Froggy]

Thats a veritas power tenon cutter they do 8 sizes from 5/8" up to 2" the 22 are £9250 the cheapest is £73.95 replacement blades are available at £16.35. Any Brimarc dealer will be able to get them. If you want me info and prices drop me a PM

Hi Russell that's where I started but they're too expensive. I'm looking for an alternative. By the way I'm origonally from Birstall - lived there most of my life before I moved to France.

 

[Froggy]

Now I'm sure I've seen something like that designed to be driven by a swing brace. Square tang and all that. If only I could remember where!!!!

Still looking,

OOO! Perhaps a 'green' woodworker could help.

xy

Does this help jog your memory http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/rare-wheelers-bru ... 53dfcc92e7
No idea what it is or what it's for!!

 

[xy mosian]

Memory Jogged?
Sadly not, the linked piece shows an internal bevel, probably for cutting a hole? The thing I'm stick with is very much like the ones you showed but has a square tang, in fact I looked on the Veritas site, but of course came up with the same things.

Now I have seen Old, Rare, Expensive adjustable tenon cutters which were brace driven on 'Old Tool' sites. They look big and awkward.

Sadly brain has started again.

If you're not doing many, and perhaps you can tolerate not being exact on dimension. How about taking the drill out of a good quality hole saw. You wood need a quick, short, chamfer to start and off you go. I was thinking of the Starrett type hole saws.


xy.

 

[Froggy]

Hmm! Never thought of a holesaw. I can give it a go for nothing :lol:
Thanks for your help.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hmm! Never thought of a holesaw. I can give it a go for nothing :lol:
Thanks for your help.

There was a nifty idea I saw on one of the US router table videos at http://www.woodworkingonline.com/. I think it was this one. It's simply a block of wood with a slot on the bottom side (into which the straight router cutter fitted) and a round hole above and slightly offset. You pushed the dowel of your choice into the hole and rotated it, letting the cutter form a perfect tenon. Quick, really cheap, and potentially pretty accurate.

It does require round stock to start from though. If you can mount the stock facing upwards, I don't see why you couldn't do the inverse of the router table idea, with a standard router base and guide bush: plunge cut, then move the router in a templated circle. The difficulty would be what you're referencing the centre to -- there would be no datum edge, so you couldn't guarantee both ends would be on the same axis.

If you have time to make it, a router lathe such as this one ought to do it really well, with the advantage that you can get precise, repeatable dimensions at the same time.

Just a few ideas...

 

[Froggy]

That's a great little idea Eric and a good site. Thanks for that. However as I'll be using branches of all shapes and sizes it's not always going to work for what I want. But it's definately going in the right direction, perhaps I can build on that and come up with something that will work for me.

 

[Eric The Viking]

That's a great little idea Eric and a good site. Thanks for that. However as I'll be using branches of all shapes and sizes it's not always going to work for what I want. But it's definately going in the right direction, perhaps I can build on that and come up with something that will work for me.

The router lathe thing would do it well, in that it centres them 'automatically, but. TBH if you're going that far you might as well use a lathe in the first place. Although the shop made one looks like a neat idea...

Cheers, E (who's just come in with 3l of veg oil for hardening/tempering chisels this afternoon, sigh).

 

[Froggy]

Cheers, E (who's just come in with 3l of veg oil for hardening/tempering chisels this afternoon, sigh).

That's a new one on me! Do you soak the chisels in the oil? If so for how long?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Cheers, E (who's just come in with 3l of veg oil for hardening/tempering chisels this afternoon, sigh).

That's a new one on me! Do you soak the chisels in the oil? If so for how long?

Nope, it's for quenching.

I'm hardening then tempering. Word is that veg oil has a higher flashpoint than engine oil (and certainly smells better), so I'm trying it as an experiment. It has the added advantage it's cheaper than engine oil, and can go straight in the Landy's tank afterwards.

If it goes wrong we're back to Duckhams 20:50...

 

[Froggy]

After quencing do you place the steel in the oven or back into your origonal heat source?

 

[Eric The Viking]

After quencing do you place the steel in the oven or back into your origonal heat source?

I've just finished doing the heating part. Had offspring assistance. which was nice.

We used two MAPP blowlamps, one locked-on, on the concrete floor, and one handheld. it was easy to achieve red/orange heat for the hardening, but I think the MAPP gas is a little too hot for tempering really. We only used a single blowlamp to temper with, but on all but the thickest chisel it was a bit too fast for comfort.

So:

0. grind basic 25 degree bevels, trying to be careful (I only have a fast, dry stone, not good).
1. harden (cherry-red/orange, 1500F approx.) then quench,
2. clean off the flat with 300-grit wet+dry,
3. heat to straw at the edge, about 350F, (starting about 3/4 inch back),
then quench.

My Marples chisels have plastic handles, so we couldn't use the oven on them.

Altogether we did six chisels and two plane irons (my Stanley #5 and #90 - I didn't burn the Record #4 iron!). Assuming I didn't cock anything up too badly (a couple might be a bit over-tempered), scary sharp should now do it. I'm warming up a bit first (coffee+sarnie), then heading up to the bench in the box room (still cold, but warmer than the garage!), to stick wet+dry to a thick glass plate and get on with it.

I've got some really nice rare earth magnets knocking about somewhere, so should be able to improvise a 'handle' for doing the flats on the smaller chisels, but I hate them getting covered in filings - it ruins them (and I hate magnetised tools too as a rule). So a strong plastic bag should stop the filngs getting where they shouldn't and I"ll have to de-mag the chisels later.

Hi ho...

 

[jasonB]

To get a bit more control when tempering place the part onto a bed of fine dry sand in an old tin and heat from below, this will give a more even temper.

Jason

 

[Eric The Viking]

To get a bit more control when tempering place the part onto a bed of fine dry sand in an old tin and heat from below, this will give a more even temper.

That's a good idea.

Next time I'll run either propane or even butane (if I can find that old torch).
Both are much cooler than MAPP. The last time I needed to work steel it was with propane and took ages to get cherry red. Even though I do plumbing with MAPP and prefer it, I hadn't realised how much hotter it really is.

There is a bit of a timing issue though with plastic handles. I clamped a big Mole grip to the blade near the tang, to act as a heatsink. It worked, but might not have done over a longer period of heating.

Still, not too much harm done, I think. But the tin idea is well worth trying.

Many thanks.