Position of dowels in table legs

[mickthetree]

Hi all

I'm putting this table together and have got to dowling the rails into the legs.

Looking through some books I have and some articles online I see that it is standard practise to put the dowels in near the edge of the leg.

I'm assuming that this is purely for asthetics as surely it would give the joint more strength if the dowel was closer in so the dowel wont blow the joint out if excessive force were applied to it?

I'm going to practise on some spare bits first as I've not done any dowling before, but I bought some 9mm hardwood dowel to go into these pine legs. Do I use a 9mm drill bit or an 8mm drill it and a bit more force?

Any suggestions and clarification as to position here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dedee]

Mick this is how I did mine

I hope you can see two dowels, diagonally apart about 1", the top most one apart 1/2" from the edge.
Table now 14 years old and structurally still very sound.

Cheers

Andy

 

[BradNaylor]

The function of the dowels is strengthen the joint by making it impossible for the tenon to come out of the mortice. Ideally the dowels need to go through the middle of the tenon.

So if your tenon is 40mm long the dowels should be about 20mm from the edge of the leg.

Cheers
Dan

 

[mickthetree]

great, thanks for your input guys. I tried drilling an 8mm hole for the 9mm dowel in a test joint I made, but its not going to fit. I've misplaced my 9mm bit so I'll have to pick up another tomorrow and try that.

thanks again

Paul

 

[dedee]

Just measured. The centre of my 8mm dowels are 19mm from the edge. Alas I have no photos, nor can I remember how long the tenons were. I do remember that there were haunched and that they did not meet the opposing tenon as per the Mick's.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Paul Chapman]

I tried drilling an 8mm hole for the 9mm dowel in a test joint I made, but its not going to fit. I've misplaced my 9mm bit so I'll have to pick up another tomorrow and try that.

Don't try to fit the dowel into a hole that's too small. Also, before glueing in the dowel, make a saw cut along its length (a junior hacksaw is best) so that excess glue can escape. If you don't do this, excess glue cannot escape or the dowel simply won't go in fully and, in a worse case scenario, the wood can split.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[mickthetree]

Hey Paul

Brilliant! I hadn't thought of that. I'm going to pick up a 9mm drill bit tomorrow and will certainly put a cut in the dowel.

I'll post some photos when I'm done.

 

[woodbloke]

Hey Paul

Brilliant! I hadn't thought of that. I'm going to pick up a 9mm drill bit tomorrow and will certainly put a cut in the dowel.

I'll post some photos when I'm done.

Paul's quite right about the slit in the dowel. The other way to do it is to place a tenon saw in the vice, teeth up, and run the dowel carefully...and I emphasize carefully, along the teeth to make a slot about a mm deep - Rob

 

[Rich]

Mick this is how I did mine

I hope you can see two dowels, diagonally apart about 1", the top most one apart 1/2" from the edge.
Table now 14 years old and structurally still very sound.

Cheers

Andy

Very very nice, and I like the fact that the chair legs match the tables, a pleasure to behold.

Regards,

Rich.

 

[joiner_sim]

Hi,

And welcome to the forum! Great to see that you are already in full swing with wood working and taking pictures, great stuff!

I would always drill a hole the correct size when working with wood, as if something is 9mm the hole needs to be 9mm, its not like brick where sometimes using a smaller drill will end up being a bigger hole!

Now, in my opinion, it'd be hard to accuratley re-drill the hole you've already done. If it was me, I'd be tempted to get a round file and gently file the hole to make it slightly bigger. Or trim the dowel..... either way you really want a clean cut hole, which I think would be hard to done in an existing hole.

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Joiner Sim

Thanks for the input. The hole I drilled before was in a test piece I kept back so no worries there. I'm just popping into town now to pickup a drill bit then I'll put them together tonight.

Thanks again

Paul

 

[Steve Maskery]

At the risk of invoking Dan's wroth, I disagree about the positioning of the dowels.

It doesn't have to be in the centre of the tenon at all, indeed the longer the tenon the more this is a bad idea. Although 20mm from the shoulder is perfectly reasonable, it's not because the tenon is 40mm long.

A pegged tenon is not used JUST to stop the tenon coming out. Modern glues are so good that only a very stressed (or poorly-fitting) M&T joint is likely to be pulled out. No, a pegged tenon is also used to obviate the need for very long clamps.

Holes are drilled in the leg, filling the mortice with a scrap to prevent breakout, then the joint is assembled. The drill is popped into the hole and it makes a mark on the surface of the tenon. I then drill the hole through the tenon, but NOT AT THE MARK. The hole is drilled about 1mm closer to the shoulder of the tenon.

The dowel peg is chamfered a little to make it go in easier, then hammered home. It forces the two components together to try to align the slightly mis-aligned hole and no clamps are needed.

The further the peg is from the shoulder of the joint, the more chance there is of the shoulder opening up with shrinkage, so it's a good idea to keep the dowels close to the edge. Not so close that they may split out, of course, but 20mm would be as good for an 80mm tenon as for a 40mm one.

My 2p for tonight.

S

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Steve

Really pleased you cleared that up. I was going to do just what you suggested in regards to drilling the hole in the tenon 1mm back, however, I have some good long sash clamps and have pulled the joints in nice and tight and drilled and dowelled the joints whilst clamped. They seem extremely strong and rigid, but I will certainly look at employing the technique in the future on "finer" furniture.

I'll post some more shots as soon as I get chance.