Polyurethane over paste wax?

[jimmel]

I'm new to woodwork and have just finished building a table - I'm very pleased with the build quality as it was my first ever project. I sanded it then used Liberon Black Bison Paste Wax (Dark Oak) to stain it. Stupidly, when I realised that the wax wasn't dark enough to achieve the colour I wanted, I started to apply it fairly heavily/thickly until it became nice and dark. I waited until it semi-dried and then brushed on a thin layer of 'Wickes ultra durable interior varnish'. This helped to seal in the wax somewhat but after leaving the table to dry for 48 hours i've found that when I touch the table, the wax slightly comes off on my finger.

I was wondering what would be the best thing to completely seal the table? In other words, to create a clear (matte/no shine) layer over the wax? Polyurehtane? I don't want to use something that will give off too many harsh chemicals as the table will go in the living room.

I now realise this was a fairly stupid way of trying to achieve the colour I wanted but I'm new to this and was just trying make best use of what I had to hand.

Any help would be much appreciated,
Thanks

 

[CHJ]

Sorry to say that it is not going to happen, the sealing that is.

Nothing you apply is going to bond correctly to the wax, wax is a protection finish to prevent or at least reduce dirt and the like bonding and is a final coat process.

Wax with or without a sanding sealer coat underneath as a final finish or stain to desired shade and then lacquer/varnish etc. to gloss level required with a wax protection on top.

Think your only option is to strip back the coating with a solvent and just stay with the wax as a finish.

 

[jimmel]

Thanks for the reply. That's a shame to hear. What if I wiped it down to get rid of the excess wax, sanded and then applied another layer of varnish?

I understand what you're saying but there is hardly any wax coming off onto my finger when I touch it now, which says to me that the varnish has semi-sealed in the wax?

If i really have to strip it back and start the finishing process again, what would be the best way for me to achieve a very dark walnut colour on construction grade whitewood (which is what the table is made from)?

 

[xraymtb]

I've been looking into staining softwood a bit (kids bed doesn't match the furniture and SWMBO has decreed it as needing sorted). Best thing I could find was gel stain as it seems many stains leave a blotchy finish on softwoods.

The general finishes one can be used without a topcoat or coated with most finishes once dry.

Others may have better options mind you.

 

[jimmel]

Surely there's something I could use to seal in the wax and create a hardened film over the top of it? As the wax is only a very thin layer which is rubbing off. What about a stronger oil meant for exterior applications?

 

[CHJ]

Wax is a release agent, versions are deliberately applied to moulds and formers to prevent adhesives, plastics etc. from bonding to the mould.

You have basically coated the wood in a release agent and although you may have some bonding to the underlying wood due to admixing the surplus wax with the varnish there is never going to be a guaranteed bond over the wax coated wood, placing a warm cup or spilling water on the surface could well lift/delaminate the surface coating from the wood.

 

[John Brown]

You can, apparently, use chalk paint on top of a waxed surface, if that's any help.

 

[jimmel]

Would I need to put anything over the chalk paint or would that act as a sealer?

Thanks

 

[Penny]

Nothing will adhere to the wax. That's part of the point in using wax. The only way around the wax problem is to scrape back the wax, and then sand, sand and sand until all trace of wax is gone. Then you can apply a stain or Polyurethane varnish. If you apply anything to a waxed finish it will lift off, especially if it gets warm (like in a house, coffee cups, plates etc) then the surface will lift off leaving a very scruffy end result.

Sorry, but that's the way wax works.

 

[John Brown]

Would I need to put anything over the chalk paint or would that act as a sealer?

Thanks

No, it wouldn't act as a sealer, but it does(sort of) adhere to the wax, according to the internet, and according to my wife(who wrote the internet).

I think all the other answers are correct. You are basically screwed unless you can scrape off/dissolve all the wax

 

[CHJ]

Chalk paint on older furniture is used to obtain a Scruffy finish simulating well worn 'chique' appearance in some folks eyes, the fact that it bonds in some areas and rubs off easily in others where wax prevents bonding is a plus for those after the 'look'.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Fiddes "PROTEX" is a type of varnish that is designed to seal in wax.
http://www.fiddes.co.uk/product.php?name=protex

 

[jimmel]

If I didn't go for the Protex, what would be the best solvent to use to get rid of the wax?

 

[jimmel]

Or to get rid of the varnish for that matter?

I realise you've said that nothing will bond to wax because that's its purpose, but would anything bond to varnish? The varnish has covered the wax layer completely. I gues if the table is in a relatively hot room there would be a chance the wax would melt under the varnish. But what I don't understand is surely wax would slightly liquify and come off the wood in higher temperatures regardless of how thickly it is applied? Or does it need to be applied extremely sparingly so it's entirely absorbed by the wood?

 

[CHJ]

A properly applied wax finish to a sealed surface and correctly buffed off should leave a surface layer that will be only be a matter of microns or fractions thereof thick.

Applying a paste wax to an unsealed surface such that the solvents may penetrate at different rates dependent upon the porosity of the different grain presentations, and hence take with it varying amounts of the wax, will inevitably lead to an uneven or blotchy effect, whether this gives you a look you prefer is problematic.

Trying to get this penetrated wax out of the porous wood structure is normally only possible by removing the contaminated surface layer to a depth below the penetration.

For most projects you do not want the finishing wax to penetrate the wood, maybe, if you are just trying to apply a water resistant coating.

If the wax product is based on Bees wax as are the majority of furniture waxes it will melt at hand temperature and the surface will dull over time if handled as it transfers to the hands.

To limit this effect most are blended with higher melting point waxes such as Carnauba or even higher melting point Microcrystalline wax.