Plywood for wardrobe doors

[archpa]

Hi

I'm looking for some advise please. I'm considering making some built in cupboards for the bedroom using single sheets of plywood for the doors.

Is birch ply the one which typically comes in a void-less variety with birch all the way through (I am planning on exposing the edges) (or was it beech ply?)

Also what grade would I need which would have one really nice side?

Would a door 600mm by 2260mm high be stiff enough? I'm considering 24mm stuff, but it is rather pricey from what I've seen.

Lastly any recommendations of a supplier in the Hertfordshire area?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

 

[jasonB]

Yes good birch ply has all the defects filled and no voids, make sure you get "birch throughout" ply not birch faced ply which has thicker softwood internal layers.

You would need the elusive "A" grade for the very best finish but will probably have to settle fot B/BB

That size door in 24mm thick will be OK if using concealed hinges you will need about 5 per door

For suppliers try Edens, James Latham, Silvermans, Richard Russel

Jason

 

[archpa]

Hi Jason

Thanks for the tips on this. - also regarding the hinges, as I'm sure I would not have used enough if you had not mentioned that!

Now I just need to find which supplier works for me!

Cheers

Paul

 

[Steve Maskery]

Arch
All that would work fine, but why do you need 24mm? As well as the astronomical cost each door will weigh a ton (hence the large number of hinges required).
What's wrong with 18mm board? My wardrobe is 18mm veneerd MDF and it's fine. OK each door has moved a BIT, but not annoyingly so, and even birch ply is not foolproof, as far as flatness and rigidity is concerned.

I'm not saying your plan is wrong, not at all, just that it seems a bit OTT to me.

 

[jasonB]

Just thought of another possible problem with 24mm board, you may get the door fouling the carcase and will certainly need a large door gap & radius corners as the hinges are really for 15-22mm board.

Jason

 

[WellsWood]

I'm with Steve, 18mm will be plenty thick and heavy enough. With 25mm doors of that size you'll have to start worrying about the hinge fixing screws pulling out of the carcase - since thats where they usually give up first.
Last Birch ply I bought was from B&Q (warehouse) of all places, about 30squids a sheet and surprisingly good quality.

Mark

 

[Chris Knight]

I have just about given up on birch ply, the stuff I have bought of late always warps (in fact it usually arrives warped and I have sent it back on a number of occasions, usually to be replaced by something not a lot better) and in the size for a door it would really be by an unacceptable amount based on my recent luck.

I would either use MDF for this or a frame and panel with solid wood - making the panels about 8mm thick

 

[Zipperhead]

Back in the early 1970's, I made some built-in wardrobes using white Conti-board - melamine faced chipboard - in about 18mm thickness and various sizes for the doors, trim etc. Instead of using hinges though, I hung them on runners to give two sliding doors. I bought a pair of wooden recessed handles and some iron-on edging tape for the inevitable raw edges. They were still going strong, 30 years later, with no sagging either. Many DIY sheds, as far as I'm aware, still sell similar or better material. If you prefer a natural wood finish, local builders merchants may well supply veneered MDF in 8'x4' sheet equivalent (18mm thick) with iron or glue on edge banding to match.
Andy.

 

[archpa]

Thanks everybody for your kind advice. I'ts certainly got me thinking!

From the discussion, my current thinking is:

I'll go for 18mm not 24mm - Thanks Steve for bringing this up!

Waterhead - you've got me worried now :shock: I was hoping/assumig that I would find some really nice looking flat birch ply! - never bought the stuff before, but I saw a guy who had done the same sort of thing a few years ago and really liked the effect. (Also the simplicity of leaving the edge exposed)

So now I'm wondering if they will stay/be flat enough - I guess the odd few mm distortion over the door size (600x2260mm) would be okay ? ?

I've called William T Eden - I can get 18mm Finnish Birch Throughout Plywood. S-Improved clear face/bb for 52 plus VAT.

Asked the guy how suitable "S-Improved clear face" was, and he suggested it may be fine, but I should look first! Has anybody tried this product? Also anybody used William T Eden in general?

Comments gratefully accepted.

 

[Chris Knight]

archpa,

I think Tim uses Edens. Jason swears by Richard Russell and both Tim and Jason use a lot of ply so I would tend to take their advice if it appears contrary to anything I write. Possibly they get better stuff on account of the volumes they use.

If I were you I would go and have a look at the way it's stored wherever you get it from. There is often quite a difference between suppliers.

The story I was told - dunno whether it's true, is that China is soaking up so much that the Baltic suppliers are sending lower grade stuff here.

 

[jasonB]

Nothing wrong with Edens, used to use them a lot but Richard Russel are just much more local to me and I can generally be gauranted first drop which saves having to hang about for a delivery.

I think the main thing is to go to a specialist panel supplier rather than your local timber yard who will either have to get it in specially and therefore it gets handled several times and posibly delivered on an open lorry along with wet tanalized timber, fencing etc. Or they will sell you something that has been hanging around for some time and not stored in ideal conditions.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

I have just about given up on birch ply, the stuff I have bought of late always warps (in fact it usually arrives warped and I have sent it back on a number of occasions, usually to be replaced by something not a lot better)

Might I suggest avoiding Chinese birch ply? :shock: And I agree with the comments that Finnish is better than Baltic (Latvian/Russian) any day

Scrit

 

[tim]

As Chris says, I use Edens for all my panel stuff. I use BB rather than S but that said I have noticed that recently there are more 'dutchmen' in the BB than there used to be. Given the usage here I would opt for the S.

Re flatness - most 18mm I get is pretty flat and because I usually get it delivered 12 sheets or so at a time its easy enough to get it flat or use the case construction to pull it flat.

Edens also offer a good cutting service now (certainly the Corsham branch do anyway).

I always specify Finnish rather than Latvian/ Russian but because of Chinese consumption prices have rocketed recently.

HTH.

Cheers
Tim

 

[RogerS]

I would either use MDF for this or a frame and panel with solid wood - making the panels about 8mm thick

Out of curiosity, Chris, how do you join panels 8 mm think? Just edge joint and glue?

 

[archpa]

So I went off to Eden's today to purchase some 18mm ply. Called first and asked if it was 'voidless' and was told it was. Anyway when I got there I had a look at the stuff (Finnish Birch throughout) grade: S-Improved clear face/BB. I was rather dissapointed - the good face was fine, but the BB edges were not as nice as I was hoping - there were many voids visible on the edges so I'm rethinking my approach...
Looked at their Veneered MDF and rather liked the finishes - eg maple, cherry, oak, etc.. So I'm thinking of going this route for the doors. The only thing is I'll then have to edge them. You can buy the iron on wood veneer to match, but I've never been keen on veneer on the edges as it has a very square look and can easily be damaged. Obviously the other approach is to add a solid lip or go all the way and make frame and panel doors, but I don't have the time nor experiance (hence it will take ages), I expect the cost will go up a lot too.

Any comments on the iron-on real-wood veneer edging? Does it stick well? Will it have a professional look and be fairly robust do you think?

Anyway it's back to the drawing board for now..

 

[Paul Chapman]

Any comments on the iron-on real-wood veneer edging? Does it stick well? Will it have a professional look and be fairly robust do you think?

Hi Paul,

As these will be doors for bedroom cupboards, they are not going to get a lot of wear and tear, so I would have thought iron-on veneer should be OK. It's very easy to apply and does stick well if you do it properly. And it wouldn't cost too much to buy a piece of MDF and edging strip and practice before you use it on the doors.

I apply it as follows. Ensure that the MDF edge is smooth and dust free. Cut the edging strip slightly over length. Warm the edge of the MDF with the iron. Lay on the edging strip ensuring that the overlap each side is even. Protecting the edging with paper, iron it slowly so that the heat is able to melt the adhesive. Then go over the edging with a smooth piece of wood, pressing down hard to ensure even contact with the MDF. When dry I trim it with a finely set block plane but others use different methods.

Hope this helps :wink:

Paul

 

[garywayne]

Paul.

What temperature do you have the iron.
Do you have it on a med heat with less chance of scorching and move slowly. Or.

Do you have the heat up higher, and move a bit quicker?

 

[RogerS]

Gary

When I use the white edging stuff I use a high heat and move at a steady pace of about 1cm a second (you want to ensure that the glue melts OK). I use bog roll as the paper :lol: I then go over it once more pressing hard on the iron. Not tried the wood block 'second pass' mtehod.

I stress that this is the white stuff...veneered stuff might be different.

 

[garywayne]

Thanks Roger.

For the first time, I would have been tempted to use a lower heat to lessen the chances of scorching. A bit like cooking meat,(to high a temp will burn the outside without cooking the inside, or scorch the veneer without melting the glue),

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks for your advice Roger, and Paul.

 

[jasonB]

I use my iron on the highest setting, the reall wood is a lot thicker than melamine edging so needs a bit more heat. I only use a sheet of paper when doing white mel edging as this scorches easily.

I trim real wood with a veritas flushplane so I can go in the grain direction but a wide chisel or blockplane blade works the same, for mel I use a lipping trimmer (dakota) Then just a quick rub with 180g

I have used the real wood edging a lot on wardrobes and never had a problem, with the MDF you have a lot more sticking surface than say Contiboard.

Jason