Ply

[DiscoStu]

I'm struggling a little with understanding ply and why to buy.

I am going to build some loft beds for my children. One of which will have a ply facia. If you're look at the longest side of the bed then each side will have a board (not the ends of the bed) and then the whole length of the bed at the top will be glad (to stop them falling out). The idea is that one side that is clad will have a ladder and the other side will have a climbing wall.

I'm thinking that the board needs to be pretty substantial to take a ladder and climbing wall holds. So I'm thinking of 15 or 18mm ply.

The question is what ply? What is the difference between structural and non structural? Also these walls need to be painted, I think there might be better options?

I'm also likely to order more than I need so I have some in stock for making a systainer unit and various other projects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RobinBHM]

I always like working with birch ply, it cuts cleanly, sands well, edges sand nicely and it generally doesnt have voids.

It does have those knot repairs which do show through paintwork, but they may only be on one face, depends on grade.

The best material for workshop jigs, boxes etc.

 

[biskit]

If you can stretch to birch ply money Stu :!: I'd go for that in 18mil. You could ( if you have time) look at some cheaper grades, they can be quite good quality.

 

[woodpig]

Another vote for Birch ply.

 

[Wuffles]

Having spent years avoiding birch ply and its inherent costs, one go with it and, well, just try and get me to use anything else now, even if it's for myself and it's my money.

SO much less faffing about with filler, the risk of de-laminating when painting, bits of god knows what inside them when you see sparks flying off your track saw. Just consistently nice stuff. Doesn't cost the earth more either really, perhaps an extra 40% more on an 8x4 18mm, ish. Really ish, I'm pulling these figures from an addled memory. Last time I bought some I went all in and bought a lot of it and store it in a container - anything for free delivery right?

If you need a hand with prices, let me know.

 

[profchris]

If I'm not hijacking the thread, could I have some ply advice too, please?

I need to make some musical instrument cases. I know 3 mm birch ply will work, but it's heavy and hard to bend.

Does anyone know if lightweight hardwood ply, like this:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Non-Stru ... m/p/110513

is of even enough consistency to bend OK? Voids and weak spots will lead to folding rather than bending. But I don't need structural strength, and the lighter weight would be good.

 

[Wuffles]

If I'm not hijacking the thread, could I have some ply advice too, please?

I need to make some musical instrument cases. I know 3 mm birch ply will work, but it's heavy and hard to bend.

Does anyone know if lightweight hardwood ply, like this:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Non-Stru ... m/p/110513

is of even enough consistency to bend OK? Voids and weak spots will lead to folding rather than bending. But I don't need structural strength, and the lighter weight would be good.

From experience, it can de-laminate, badly. If that's not an issue for you then cool. That's not to say the stuff Wickes are selling is the same stuff I'm talking about, but I wouldn't be in any way surprised. I wouldn't buy it for anything nice, and I'm cheap.

 

[DiscoStu]

I'll look into birch ply but I fear the cost might be an issue. I probably want 6-10 sheets (not worked it out yet) so an extra 40% is going to add up. Maybe an extra £150-£200. That's quite a lot. This is for my kids bedrooms.

What is the difference between structural and non structural ply? Wicks offer both?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[petermillard]

What is the difference between structural and non structural ply?

From memory, structural ply conforms to the relevant BS code, non structural doesn't - not sure what the practical differences are though. I'd go for birch ply over either, personally.

If the beds are to be painted, why not use MR MDF?

Cheers, Peter

(Edited for spelling)

 

[DiscoStu]

The MDF question is valid and my youngest's current bed was made with MDF. I'm generally Trying to move away from MDF in the workshop - mainly due to the dust concerns. I also don't think the edges paint well as the "grain" lifts and goes fluffy. (Not so much with MR MDF). However that isn't ruled out yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I've used simple spruce ply - WISA was the brand - specified 2+ for flooring/roofing use (i.e. structural - relates to glue used and quality of the plies). It has a surprisingly good surface finish, once sanded and - if necessary - filled, which takes paint well. It's relatively inexpensive but works well for this kind of thing. Cheers, W2S

 

[HexusOdy]

The MDF question is valid and my youngest's current bed was made with MDF. I'm generally Trying to move away from MDF in the workshop - mainly due to the dust concerns. I also don't think the edges paint well as the "grain" lifts and goes fluffy. (Not so much with MR MDF). However that isn't ruled out yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You shouldn't have any problem with MDF, it just takes a little more prep before painting. In my opinion MDF gets an unduly bad rep.

Its cheap, structurally sound for most projects and paints fine as long as you use a decent primer. I just made 2 toy boxes with basic MDF and as long as you sand the edges well, add a couple of coats of primer it finishes well.

 

[MusicMan]

If I'm not hijacking the thread, could I have some ply advice too, please?

I need to make some musical instrument cases. I know 3 mm birch ply will work, but it's heavy and hard to bend.

Does anyone know if lightweight hardwood ply, like this:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Non-Stru ... m/p/110513

is of even enough consistency to bend OK? Voids and weak spots will lead to folding rather than bending. But I don't need structural strength, and the lighter weight would be good.

The only thing I have experience of for this is poplar ply. It is lighter weight than birch etc, and often used in caravans and boats for this reason. 3 mm bends easily and uniformly and is a good surface. I got mine from Avon Plywoods in Bristol, who have good prices and even do CNC cutting to order, but have an expensive delivery charge - collect if you can. You may find a closer source.

Keith

 

[woodpig]

I've had Wickes ply delaminate on several occasions. Travis Perkins sell lots of different grades of ply but only in full sheets as far as I know which can be an issue for one or two sheets because of the delivery cost. I use a local timber merchant now who cuts to size so I can collect it myself.

 

[petermillard]

...I also don't think the edges paint well as the "grain" lifts and goes fluffy. (Not so much with MR MDF). However that isn't ruled out yet.

Unless you're going for decent Birch ply, IME getting a good painted edge on plywood is a lot more effort than on MDF. Actually, even with Birch ply it isn't straightforward :/

 

[No skills]

In my limited experience I would say if you use a cheaper ply then it might be easier to lip the cut edges with timber than to try and fill the voids. Will add time to the job yes, but if you have more time than money it's a good option.
There's an 'exterior' ply in my local orange shed atm that I want to try out, it's face sides look like beech, which I find quite ironic as I think beech is a crap wood for outdoors use. One day I'll buy a sheet or two and chop it into some cabinets and see how it is.

 

[pike]

I've used simple spruce ply - WISA was the brand - specified 2+ for flooring/roofing use (i.e. structural - relates to glue used and quality of the plies). It has a surprisingly good surface finish, once sanded and - if necessary - filled, which takes paint well. It's relatively inexpensive but works well for this kind of thing. Cheers, W2S

I've used this for tool storage in the garage and had it mistaken for birch ply on first look. I'd still probably stump up for birch for something on show in the house but wisa spruce can often be a good choice.

Can anyone point me/us in the direction of where to get Birch or WISA spruce for a reasonable price when not in the trade? Places I've used in the past have been grumpy if I didn't have a fork lift (for just 4 sheets) in the past..

Cheers,
Carl.

 

[DiscoStu]

Ordered 18mm MR MDF in the end. Ply and grades of it was getting so confusing and the prices were really high for good quality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[profchris]

Reporting back. I bought a full sheet of 3.6 mm lightweight hardwood ply from Buildbase for about £10.50 Inc VAT, so it has to be the lowest grade available. It bent very easily on a hot pipe, with the outside laminations at 90 degrees so the thicker inner core grain direction ran lengthways. One minor delamination on the tight bend, which is OK as I'm covering the case, and could probably have been prevented by using a back strap while bending.

This stuff is actually quite good quality, though the surface veneer is paper thin and you wouldn't want to sand it much. Very light but still stiff, and much better for my purpose than birch ply. Inner core is poplar I think with only one void that I've come across so far. If you could avoid more than the lightest sanding, the outside veneers look quite nice.

As I have 4x as much as I needed it's a guitar case next.