Please teach me about planes

[Jacob]

Pretty much all hand planing is basic, but there is a lot of daftness, dishonesty and/or lack of precise work from most folks.
Try and fight flat and you wont fair well, so a good straight edge of whatever description, and long reach angle poise is about the best way to progress without bad habits, as you'll actually be sure of what you're doing.

Don't plane in a vise if the work is deflecting, and the same might go with a bendy warped workbench top, the surface needs to be flat if that is the case,
as the plane wont cut into a hollow.

David Charlesworth has the best information regarding honest work and good habits, if you want precision.
Those principals will enable one to always have a plane which takes a cut no matter the shaving,
rather than taking swipes of thin air or hogging chips off inaccurately with a scrub plane, as that thing is a sure step into fighting with the tool/flatness.

All the best
Tom

Not too bothered about Charelsworth myself. Yes he is very precise but overdoes it IMHO and makes the solution more complicated than the problem - all that fuss with straight edges, feeler gauges etc. like a precision engineering analysis of a problem not necessarily useful in a workshop

 

[Ttrees]

Aye, perhaps it might seem that way, but one must remember had they not been watching videos on mute, that those things are teaching aids,
(intended for demonstrating to newcomers)
which explain what the plane does accurately, and not pretend.

Tom

 

[Jacob]

Aye, perhaps it might seem that way, but one must remember had they not been watching videos on mute, that those things are teaching aids,
(intended for demonstrating to newcomers)
which explain what the plane does accurately, and not pretend.

Tom

Yes OK as teaching aid but not as workshop technique. The workshop way of checking for straightness is to eyeball the thing - woodworkers don't need straight edges, except winding sticks perhaps.

 

[essexalan]

Make sure the sole is flat that is my primary reference point, a few minor concave points here and there will do no harm as long as the mouth area is flat. Good straight edge is your best friend here.
Move the frog as Jacob recommended. Don't over tighten the frog screws.
Chipbreaker should fit the iron with no daylight showing or you will get constant jams. If it doesn't then either the iron is not flat or the chipbreaker needs some work or both. Make sure your handles are not loose.
Flatten your work bench.

 

[Droogs]

About using the planes themselves,
1. just make sure that the toe, heel and the area both immediately forward and to the rear of the mouth are level in the same plane of reference. The size of the mouth is fairly immaterial on both a bailey and double iron wooden body.

2. have the appropriate iron in the plane:
a. largish camber for hogging off large amounts to get a roughly level (but bumpy scalloped) surface. Just remember the wider the board the longer the plane. Use the plane at a 45° angle to the face edge starting at right hand end toe point to the left and work across the piece then start at the left and point the toe to the right. Keep going until the board is "level". Don't be afraid to concentrate on high spots only for a few strokes.
b. Change iron for a straight one with a straight iron or plane to a #6 or longer and then go with the flow of the grain from board end to end to get the face level or there is no evidence of the scallops and have no wind present.
c. If appropriate you can then use a smoother with slight easing of the corners of the iron to remove any track marks and pretty up the surface.

3. Regarding the irons, I have and use 2 of each of the following (the reason for 2 of each comes later):
a. Large camber from side to side for scrub working
b. straight edge fully side to side for use in everything bigger than a smoother and for use in a shooting plane
c. "straight" edge but with eased corners so as to not leave any track marks and used in smoothers

4. Why 2 of each? Simples one set of irons at around 25° for working in softwood and one at ~30-35° for a york type pitch for working hardwoods but without having to change the frog. Where a really high angle of attack is needed I put a 3mm shim behind the iron and the frog to give a proper york pitch when working highly figured or troublesome wood.

5. MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT;
The most important aspect of using a plane after scrubbing is the use of the cap iron/chip breaker. As @D_W has pointed out before it must fit properly on the iron with the leading edge mating to the iron surface edge to edge in order to prevent shavings slipping under and causing a jam. The cap iron's importance to good efficient working can not be understated. Make sure it is clean edged has no nicks and there is a performance boost if it is highly polished. The pure theory suggests that the cap iron should be as far back from the cutting edge as the thickness of the shaving you will take, now that is not really practical in real life so I aim to have the leading edge around 1/2mm from the cutting edge. If shavings stick then move it back to 1mm with a little tap of the heel of the iron on the bench.

6. When using the plane at the begining of the stroke put pressure on the toe until the mouth is around 2" past the edge being planed and then as more of the heel of the plane comes into contact with the surface adjust the pressure to the rear, so that by the time the mouth passes the middle of the board you weight should be 90% on the heel until the toe reaches the other end of the board where you weight should then be 100% on the heel until the end of the stroke when the mouth passes over the end edge.

These are the relevant basic points regarding using hand planes and working from hewn wood to board by hand that I have learned over the years. Although when all else fails it is a darn good idea to have a toothing plane & a scraper handy when working gnarly hardwoods.

hth

 

[Jacob]

About using the planes themselves,
1. just make sure that the toe, heel and the area both immediately forward and to the rear of the mouth are level in the same plane of reference. The size of the mouth is fairly immaterial on both a bailey and double iron wooden body.

2. have the appropriate iron in the plane:
a. largish camber for hogging off large amounts to get a roughly level (but bumpy scalloped) surface. Just remember the wider the board the longer the plane. Use the plane at a 45° angle to the face edge starting at right hand end toe point to the left and work across the piece then start at the left and point the toe to the right. Keep going until the board is "level". Don't be afraid to concentrate on high spots only for a few strokes.
b. Change iron for a straight one with a straight iron or plane to a #6 or longer and then go with the flow of the grain from board end to end to get the face level or there is no evidence of the scallops and have no wind present.
c. If appropriate you can then use a smoother with slight easing of the corners of the iron to remove any track marks and pretty up the surface.

3. Regarding the irons, I have and use 2 of each of the following (the reason for 2 of each comes later):
a. Large camber from side to side for scrub working
b. straight edge fully side to side for use in everything bigger than a smoother and for use in a shooting plane
c. "straight" edge but with eased corners so as to not leave any track marks and used in smoothers

4. Why 2 of each? Simples one set of irons at around 25° for working in softwood and one at ~30-35° for a york type pitch for working hardwoods but without having to change the frog. Where a really high angle of attack is needed I put a 3mm shim behind the iron and the frog to give a proper york pitch when working highly figured or troublesome wood.

5. MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT;
The most important aspect of using a plane after scrubbing is the use of the cap iron/chip breaker. As @D_W has pointed out before it must fit properly on the iron with the leading edge mating to the iron surface edge to edge in order to prevent shavings slipping under and causing a jam. The cap iron's importance to good efficient working can not be understated. Make sure it is clean edged has no nicks and there is a performance boost if it is highly polished. The pure theory suggests that the cap iron should be as far back from the cutting edge as the thickness of the shaving you will take, now that is not really practical in real life so I aim to have the leading edge around 1/2mm from the cutting edge. If shavings stick then move it back to 1mm with a little tap of the heel of the iron on the bench.

6. When using the plane at the begining of the stroke put pressure on the toe until the mouth is around 2" past the edge being planed and then as more of the heel of the plane comes into contact with the surface adjust the pressure to the rear, so that by the time the mouth passes the middle of the board you weight should be 90% on the heel until the toe reaches the other end of the board where you weight should then be 100% on the heel until the end of the stroke when the mouth passes over the end edge.

These are the relevant basic points regarding using hand planes and working from hewn wood to board by hand that I have learned over the years. Although when all else fails it is a darn good idea to have a toothing plane & a scraper handy when working gnarly hardwoods.

hth

I'd say that much of Droogs post is interesting but could be OTT for our OP as a near beginner, though of course he may get there (or something like it) in time!
But the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT notes are spot on. Good fitting cap iron is beginner basic and everybody finds this out quite quickly if it isn't, with chippings sliding under, or butting against the end of the iron if it isn't backed off well below 90º from the blade.
Gotta keep it simple of you are a learner!

 

[Scarlet Lancer]

Paul Sellers is one of the best for sensible basic advice. He's done several vids and lots on his blog posts.
If you are a bit of a beginner I'd start by doing what he does here - with a 4 or 5 practice on the edge of a thin board before you move on to more difficult stuff. Keep it simple!

I like his method with the exception of the abuse of the lever cap as a screw driver and hammer.

 

[Ttrees]

Yes OK as teaching aid but not as workshop technique. The workshop way of checking for straightness is to eyeball the thing - woodworkers don't need straight edges, except winding sticks perhaps.

Yep, I can see exactly where the high spots of the timber sits whilst it's placed on the bench, and judge accordingly, (whilst keeping Charlesworth's fundamentals)
for instance, what a straight edge is,
i.e a straight line between two points, so essentially hollow, as we cannot have it the other way, since there would be no way to measure it.

I can shim my bench to have a flat surface, which is much the same principals, as I think anyone who wants to do much work with a hand plane, (stuff to a fine tolerance)
would be better off starting with the ideals of respecting the surface, (i.e not cutting into it)
as using it as such, makes it so easy compared to other methods.

Right off the bat having no bad habits, why not make things so?
All you need is a straight edge, which you can make like below
(need a pair if making some)

You might even have a straight edge as long as the work already
Good light with a long easy reach makes it easier again.

Nothing needed/wanted, but a cleat on the end of the bench to butt the work against.
Providing the OP actually does have a workbench, or slab which is rigid enough to sit on horses.

 

[D_W]

Right off the bat having no bad habits, why not make things so?

Agree -I also learned early on from that charlesworth video. I didn't find it easy to do in greater volume due to how slow it is, but that's the case for almost anything - you gain discretion about when "all of the steps" are needed or how to do some of them faster.

Accuracy and good results first, speed will come with experience and adjusting technique to get the results faster.

 

[D_W]

I like his method with the exception of the abuse of the lever cap as a screw driver and hammer.

what does this mean, taking the plane apart and tightening the screw with the lever cap?

(the slowness of getting an edge refreshed as shown in that video is agonizing!!)

 

[Jacob]

Yep, I can see exactly where the high spots of the timber sits whilst it's placed on the bench, and judge accordingly, (whilst keeping Charlesworth's fundamentals)
for instance, what a straight edge is,
i.e a straight line between two points, so essentially hollow, as we cannot have it the other way, since there would be no way to measure it.

I can shim my bench to have a flat surface, which is much the same principals, as I think anyone who wants to do much work with a hand plane, (stuff to a fine tolerance)
would be better off starting with the ideals of respecting the surface, (i.e not cutting into it)
as using it as such, makes it so easy compared to other methods.

Right off the bat having no bad habits, why not make things so?
All you need is a straight edge, which you can make like below
(need a pair if making some)

View attachment 143052
You might even have a straight edge as long as the work already
Good light with a long easy reach makes it easier again.

Nothing needed/wanted, but a cleat on the end of the bench to butt the work against.
Providing the OP actually does have a workbench, or slab which is rigid enough to sit on horses.
View attachment 143053

I think Charlesworth got it completely wrong on this one.
Much easier to just squint down the length of the thing instead of struggling with a straightedge. flattening benches, fiddling with feeler gauges.
Either the thing has to look straight, hence looking at it is the test.
Instead of face down on the bench so you can't see the face you just turn it over and look at it.
Or it has to fit against something so a trial fit (a.k.a. "offering up") is the test - no point in carefully fitting both pieces to a straight edge when you can just fit one to the other and cut out the middleman!
Then if you want to make your own straight edge (common practice) you don't have to buy another one first! Or ever at all for that matter. The traditional very long straightedge for bigger projects is the chalk line. Just a piece of string. Extensively used until lasers etc came in.

 

[Ttrees]

Perhaps that's where you get the idea that using a close set cap iron is akin to scraping?
Still waiting for some sort of example of good planing techniques, surely you have seen some youtuber doing things productively to an accurate level like you say.

Tom

 

[thetyreman]

Paul sellers is a fool when it comes to using planes for more than smoothing. It's late in the afternoon, and I'm in the middle of work - no time to try to make it sound nicer.

you're not much better to be honest, you work in an office, not at a workbench all day every day, get over yourself!

 

[D_W]

The idea that the cap iron is like scraping is parroted a lot. It's too bad - there are a few who experiment with setting cap, and if it's not a beginner thing, it should literally be the next thing learned when no longer a beginner as it's a free gift from the heavens.

It's nothing to do with scraping, it's a mechanical wall that pushes back on a shaving to allow for a relatively low cutting angle without allowing a shaving thicker than a couple of thousandths to lift as a splinter.

Literally employed in every decent machine planer and jointer prior to spiral heads, and still in tersa, and put in planes at an additional cost in complexity for hundreds of years.

If it were a scraper, we would be using plane shaped scraping tools instead of planes.

 

[Ttrees]

you're not much better to be honest, you work in an office, not at a workbench all day every day, get over yourself!

Perhaps it's office by day, plane wielder by night!

 

[D_W]

you're not much better to be honest, you work in an office, not at a workbench all day every day, get over yourself!

You know that about me because I offer it. I also know a lot more about planes, planing and toolmaking than paul ever will but don't sell a gimmick.

Part of the trouble of catering to a group as paul does is it creates a cult of personality and it doesn't really matter how true and easily testable things that I say are, people will flow to the guy who is a glorified salesman.

When it comes to something like paul vs. a professional (like George Wilson) the bulk of the audience will flow to paul and have no idea how much worse off they are. George Wilson gave advice for free and was accessible and it's almost as if it counted against him. He was a pure maker of the highest order.

Your message is a good demonstration of this cult of personality. If paul had to plane something next to me and it started with rough wood, it would turn out poorly. If he set up a plane and I set one up in 1/5th the time and you used both, the result would be poor. The more you get into the details and use the plane longer, the less well his would fare.

But I offer what I know about a narrow range of things (because I am narrowly focused) and it's generally not that well received, I guess because it's not dressed up in a spring dress called "lifestyle woodworking".

I had the same issues with DC a few times, where I talked about things that would actually be practical if getting past beginner's level. If you're a beginner and you have aspirations, you need to know they're out there even if they might take a month to get to instead of one class period. Everything DC ever challenged me on, I proved.

I can tell you how much good it does - a lot for a very small percentage of people who are looking for results.

But the rest of the group is completely closed to it or is dismissive about it not being useful because it doesn't seem immediately easy.

 

[thetyreman]

how is paul not a professional?? you're totally deluded, he makes his living from youtube, his website woodworkingmasterclasses.com and commissions for high end furniture lol

 

[D_W]

how is paul not a professional?? you're totally deluded, he makes his living from youtube, his website woodworkingmasterclasses.com and commissions for high end furniture lol

Makers make. He is a professional instructor. I see exceptionally little of what he's made, but he is very good at making videos and drawing in beginners.

George Wilson is a maker. Alan Peters was a maker.

Paul has made his living teaching students for almost 40 years, not making. If you asked me how i thought he gets commissions now, i would guess that some has come because of the curated image.

When I see him instructing people on the function of planes, he's doing things at first week beginner's level and anyone who regards him as an authority and is afraid to go past there is stuck at it.

I think it's a shame that the level of scrutiny is so low that I've seen only a few professionals who actually work with planes for more than smoothing with the same reaction. That the demonstrations are painful and they are a recipe for failure.

I ask questions in this thread and others about what someone wants to do - because if it's once or twice or just to smooth stock coming out of a machine, it doesn't matter much what you do. But I think a lot of hobbyists would like to do more and if anyone is unable to say they can confidently plane anything efficiently without worrying about ending up with anything more than minor scraping or sanding on the worst of stock, then the instruction to them has been a disservice.

And better information is public domain - free.

But to call paul a pro in the same sense that George Wilson is a professional, there should be two different words for it. The lack of a portfolio on his site is really bizarre. I'd be screaming to show the things I've made if I were touting myself. One of the things that someone tried to slap Wilson with was "paul made something for the president", but at the time, it sounds like Frank Strazza was teaching classes at one of paul's places, and the original display of the piece that went to the white house said more or less that it was made in Paul's shop and maybe that he did some of it. Who made it. Strazza? It was kind of harsh looking in terms of proportions, and design, but it was better than Ikea. I don't think paul did much of the neat work on it and it was still not close to the fine work that George Wilson has done - again, George was vilified because he gave clear advice, for free and was accessible on a forum - the trouble started when he referred to Chris Schwarz as doing sloppy work on something that he did sloppy work on.

What is brought in front of us to catch beginners as a world of fine work or professional makers is an alternate reality, though. Eventually, George stopped providing advice because he felt that people actually taking advice and trying to learn was fairly low probability.

(and his response to Sellers fans, who probably got a piece in the whitehouse finished at least with the help of other people because his woodworking school was in Bush's vacation town - that's my interpretation of what's likely - was that he'd had a hand in making things or solely made items for 7 presidents, the queen and margaret thatcher. Which was funny).

The sad part is that people could look at the work of george and then watch a video of paul and then think they were equally accomplished.

 

[Jacob]

how is paul not a professional?? you're totally deluded, he makes his living from youtube, his website woodworkingmasterclasses.com and commissions for high end furniture lol

Is that D_W casting aspersions as usual? I've got him on ignore!
"Paul Sellers (born 1950) is a British woodworker, writer and teacher. He was apprenticed as a woodworker in the UK in 1965 at the age of 15. He moved to the US in 1984 and quickly became noted for his ability in traditional woodworking. He has and continues to teach people the craft of woodworking." That's 57 years full time work experience!

 

[D_W]

Is that D_W casting aspersions as usual? I've got him on ignore!
"Paul Sellers (born 1950) is a British woodworker, writer and teacher. He was apprenticed as a woodworker in the UK in 1965 at the age of 15. He moved to the US in 1984 and quickly became noted for his ability in traditional woodworking. He has and continues to teach people the craft of woodworking." That's 57 years full time work experience!

became noted where? He at one point wrote that he was making craft work in texas and managed to find his way into instructing students at a school there.

I've never seen evidence that he did full time making work for a living.

You'd think someone with that much background would have a huge portfolio. When I ask George about something he's done or made, he can show it. When I ask anyone who is a maker, they can show their work easily even if they admit they've only photographed a small portion of it. I asked rob cosman at one point if he had a portfolio and even he was able to point me to it online.

It's not a popular opinion, but it seems more likely watching paul work that he's good at doing things he demonstrates, but because of repeated demonstrations.