Planing End Grain

[James C]

Went for a little look round Axminster yesterday whilst on holiday to see what the next tool I might be saving towards.
I can only really afford to spend £60 a month on tools and such but I have managed to flesh out most of what I need.

The main thing I struggle with at the moment is planing and shooting end grain. Yesterday's trip was to look at all the lovely low Angle planes that I won't be able to afford for a while.
(Torn between the Veritas or the Quangsheng currently).

In the meantime I have to make do with my vintage Stanley No5 which is a real beauty being a Type 11. I have the original iron ground with a camber and a spare Quangsheng iron set straight for edges.

Even when I have my plane set tightly and the iron very sharp, sometimes I struggle to push through when shooting end grain. I've read in American magazines about the use of denatured alcohol to make it easier to work. I know that we use methylated spirits in this country but that it is made in a different process and I think Meths in America aren't dyed.

I'm a bit wary about using Meths on my wood due to the different manufacturing process and the use of dye. Has anyone tried this before? Is there a better alternative?

 

[bugbear]

Even when I have my plane set tightly and the iron very sharp, sometimes I struggle to push through when shooting end grain.

Shooting is not as easy as some people say...

It's quite difficult to get a fine set plane to take an even shaving, so the temptation is to set the blade a bit deeper.

When this (finally!) bites it can be hard to push.

I would recommend practising on soft (scrap) wood to get your technique in place. The blade (of course) needs to be pretty much as sharp as you can get it.

I would also recommend either knifing the line you're working to all the way round, or (at least) chamfering the rear edge of the workpiece to prevent spelching.

BugBear

 

[deema]

End grain can be a nightmare. I have also tried to find the holy grail solution without any luck. Low angle planes are I believe very popular, most have the blade bevel up. If you add up the angles, 20 degrees of the frog and say 25 degrees for the blade your back to the standard angle of a normal frog with the plane bevel down, net result no improvement as the planing angle is the same. ( standard frogs are usually 45degrees).

The only remedy for using a plane is I believe what you have already highlighted. A really, really sharp blade and a closed up mouth.

There is another solution when money and space allow. A Morso mitre machine (Rolls Royce), or one of the bench top guillotines that are used for picture framing allow almost any angle to be cut with precision leaving a glass like finish. Everything will butt up perfectly. I have not tried the Axminster bench top guillotine, it looks OK, it has a reasonable capacity and can do compound angles. It can often be found eBay for less than your monthly budget.

 

[Jacob]

End grain is easy if you have a sharp plane finely set and a very steady hand.
Try doing it in the vice without a shooting board. Work towards the middle from each end. Start with no cut and slowly advance the blade until it's just doing it. It's easier than a shooting board and if you can do this you will find a shooting board easier to use (but not essential).
Low angle planes are fairly pointless - the effective cutting angle is too close to the normal plane to make any difference. Except for small low angle block planes which are convenient for one hand use.

 

[AndyT]

I've never heard of using alcohol to improve planing but I guess if you wanted to try it, surgical spirit from the first aid section of the chemist's would be the colour-free option.

 

[Richard T]

It is a lot easier to pare end grain with a chisel held at a low angle and bevel up. I wouldn't even think of trying it the other way round.

And it is a lot easier for a plane body to hold an iron in a paring position to slice end grain. This has been the function of mitre planes for centuries - certainly before modern makers started to sell BU planes for every use and started talking about effective pitch for smoothing/shaping purposes.
The above mentioned specialist mitre slicers also come at it at a very low angle and bevel up.

Good quality BD planes might do it and do it well but they don't find it as mechanically easy.

For end grain it just makes sense to pare it. Effective pitch has nothing to do with it. It's ergonomically superior ...an' all that stuff.

 

[bugbear]

The above mentioned specialist mitre slicers also come at it at a very low angle and bevel up.

Indeed - the frog angle is effectively zero, so the EP is far lower than any plane (lowest frog angle 12 degrees).

I do have a rather unusual vintage coffin bodied plane with a frog angle of 36.5 degrees though, presumably aimed at end grain work.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

It is a lot easier to pare end grain with a chisel held at a low angle and bevel up. I wouldn't even think of trying it the other way round.

Yes

And it is a lot easier for a plane body to hold an iron in a paring position to slice end grain.

My planes never complain. Ease doesn't come into it!

For end grain it just makes sense to pare it.

With a chisel yes

Effective pitch has nothing to do with it. It's ergonomically superior ....

With a plane effective pitch is all. Ergonomics is to do with the handles, nothing to do with the blade at all.

 

[János]

Hello,

Planing end grain is a demanding task. The best tool for this work is a miter plane, in the American configuration, with blade bevel down. The beding angle is 32~35 degrees, so it has the same cutting angle as a low angle block plane with 20 deg. blade.
But its blade is sharpened to 25~28 deg, so it holds its edge better.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Dlow]

I have always used my 5 1/2 for end grain shooting with a shooting board. I find it works well providing it is sharp and the material is thin, around max 10mm. Anything thither i will put in the vice and use mu low angle block plane. If it starts getting too large for the block plane i can revert back to my 5 1/2 holding the peace in the vice.

David

 

[bugbear]

Hello,

Planing end grain is a demanding task. The best tool for this work is a miter plane, in the American configuration, with blade bevel down. The beding angle is 32~35 degrees, so it has the same cutting angle as a low angle block plane with 20 deg. blade.
But its blade is sharpened to 25~28 deg, so it holds its edge better.

Have a nice day,

János

Which plane are you thinking of? The obvious one, the Stanley #9 is definitely bevel up.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Whether you can successfully plane end grain to a nice smooth surface does depend on the wood as well as the tools used. One of the most difficult woods to get a smooth end grain surface is the common softwood sold by builders' merchants for interior joinery. It shows markedly different summer and winter growth, with bands of harder, darker wood alternating with lighter, very soft wood. Unless the blade is very sharp and the pressure quite gentle, the lighter wood can be too weak to support the darker wood while it is being cut. The result is that chunks get torn out leaving a rough surface. (This can also be a problem when trying to chop out dovetails with a chisel.)
Be sceptical of demonstrations using carefully selected, mild wood - or else accept that choosing the right material is one of the good woodworker's skills!

 

[Peter T]

I use a good quality 4 1/2 smoother for larger pieces and a Philly skew mitre to shoot smaller pieces; works fine for me so long as they are SHARP.

You do need to keep everything securely clamped. If not you will get chatter during the cut and then you might as well give up!

Good luck,

 

[János]

Hello,

The tool is the wooden miter/mitre plane, with bevel down blade, with single or double iron, with straight sides or in coffin shape. It was mentioned in Whelan, John M.: The wooden Plane, pages 65-66.

This is mine, with an 50 mm blade with cap iron, bedded at 32 deg.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

No ones mentioned candle wax yet. Surprised at that. I use a block plane. I sharpen to a razor edge on the tormek or oil stone by hand in the bad old days. This is of course critical. I mount the board in a vice and wax the sole of the plane by rubbing it with a candle. I chamfer the sides by taking light passes from the edge towards the end of the board ie upwards at about 45degree to vertical. This prevents split out of the grain fibres when you plane across the end grain which I do next. I tend to go from edge to the middle but if its a small enough surface and you've chamfered you can go right across in one pass. The set is fine of course. Keep rewaxing the sole as necessary. It positively glides and you're left with a finish you simply can't get with sandpaper no matter what the grit.

 

[JonnyD]

This plane works ok for shooting

Well a bit better than ok it slices through effortlessly. I have found any plane will work well as long as its sharp but the low angle bevel up planes work well those with a 12 degree bed and 25 degree bevel.

Cheers

Jon

 

[Cheshirechappie]

This plane works ok for shooting

Well a bit better than ok it slices through effortlessly. I have found any plane will work well as long as its sharp but the low angle bevel up planes work well those with a 12 degree bed and 25 degree bevel.

Cheers

Jon

At £435-50 a pop, it damn well ought to work better than OK. People have assembled entire tool kits for less than that.

Edit to add - happy the person who can afford such a solution. For those with less to spend - a bench plane with a very sharp iron, not too deep a cut and a bit of persistence will get you there most of the time. If you can run to a mitre-type plane with a thick, bevel-up iron (again, very sharp) then so much the better. Whatever you use, sharpness of cutter does seem to be the important bit.

 

[AndyT]

At £435-50 a pop, it damn well ought to work better than OK. People have assembled entire tool kits for less than that.

- and I see the handle has got all twisted! I'll take it off your hands for you if you want...

 

[JonnyD]

I can live with the twisted handle so I think I'll keep it. Should I bring it along to the sharpening event?

Cheers

Jon

 

[James C]

Some helpful comments on here so thanks everyone. I will try scribing a knife line all the way round, but I already use chamfers to stop spelching.

The main problems is the plane being forced out of the cut when planing Oak. I will try to endure and improve my technique but I used a very sharp iron with a tight mouth and still had problems. The sole is not out (I have checked).

At Axminster I used a low angle jack with a pretty dull iron and a similarly set mouth and got great consistent shavings. I think that bevel up does have an effect so it goes on the ever growing to purchase list.

Denatured alcohol seems to widely used in America and endorsed by FWW and Chris Schwarz and all that lot. I've seen clear Methulated spirit advertised on the continent as a sanding assistant that doesn't raise the grain like water would.

I might try surgical spirit and I will give methylated spirits a go as well and see how it turns out.