planer thicknessers

[marcros]

Never mind lifting tables, IMO the number one hassle with planer thicknessers is blade changing. If I was faced with the choice of separates with traditional blades, or a combined planer thicknesser with tersa blades, then the tersa would win every time!

That is one of the reasons I was wondering about the new spiral blocks. quite a big up front cost, but has the advantage of just rotating those cutting faces that need it. They get good reviews, from those that i have read, but there hasnt been huge uptake.

what is special about the tersa ones- the material?

 

[RogerS]

Never mind lifting tables, IMO the number one hassle with planer thicknessers is blade changing. If I was faced with the choice of separates with traditional blades, or a combined planer thicknesser with tersa blades, then the tersa would win every time!

That is one of the reasons I was wondering about the new spiral blocks. quite a big up front cost, but has the advantage of just rotating those cutting faces that need it. They get good reviews, from those that i have read, but there hasnt been huge uptake.

Not always! http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... 56#p107856

 

[marcros]

Never mind lifting tables, IMO the number one hassle with planer thicknessers is blade changing. If I was faced with the choice of separates with traditional blades, or a combined planer thicknesser with tersa blades, then the tersa would win every time!

That is one of the reasons I was wondering about the new spiral blocks. quite a big up front cost, but has the advantage of just rotating those cutting faces that need it. They get good reviews, from those that i have read, but there hasnt been huge uptake.

Not always! http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... 56#p107856

hmmm.... quite alarming that

 

[custard]

Never mind lifting tables, IMO the number one hassle with planer thicknessers is blade changing. If I was faced with the choice of separates with traditional blades, or a combined planer thicknesser with tersa blades, then the tersa would win every time!

That is one of the reasons I was wondering about the new spiral blocks. quite a big up front cost, but has the advantage of just rotating those cutting faces that need it. They get good reviews, from those that i have read, but there hasnt been huge uptake.

what is special about the tersa ones- the material?

I said "Tersa" because it's virtually a generic name for replaceable planer knives. Personally I use the Felder replaceable knife system in a four knife block and have nothing but praise for the system, although I've seen plenty of Tersa blocks in action hogging off 3mm plus cuts in hardwood.

Regarding the new spiral blocks. They've been available for spindle moulders for quite some time, but strangely they're usually billed as a roughing out tool for spindle moulders, certainly when I've used them they're prone to leaving "witness lines". In terms of their use on planer/thicknessers, opinion seems to be divided. Everyone agrees they are much, much quieter, but some people claim they give a superior finish on difficult grain where as other people say they tend to tear the grain more! I believe that Felder machined some boards from the same tree, one on a spiral block and one on a traditional block...and they were unable to tell any difference whatsoever between them.

When it comes to P/T tear out I'm pretty content with a very shallow cut and fresh knives (which is why I'm against traditional knives, in almost every workshop I've seen the planer knives are often run long past when they need changing because it's such a faff to install fresh ones), but some very experiences machinists will occasionally put a back bevel on their planer knives which is much like using a steeper pitch on a hand plane.

 

[marcros]

so custard, what is the downtime on your machine, from when you decide to change the replaceable knives, to you next being able to put a board through on your felder?

my axi, with its traditional knives is a good hour i reckon, plus a few days for sharpening because i dont have a spare set. I hate doing the job, so fall into the category of running them long past their best

 

[RogerS]

Do check out those Barke blades. Throwaway. No sharpening. No re-alignment (after the initial set-up). Minimal downtime.

 

[stuartpaul]

This may be a stupid question, but I currently have separate machines.

Do planer thicknessers have a single cutter block, or do they have one for the planning and one for the thicknessing part.

I am thinking of upgrading my planer to one that will manage wider stock. It is the 3 blade axi 6” one, which other than the fact it is 6”, I cannot fault. I am only looking at this stage, but am wondering whether to try and find one that I could fit with one of the spiral cutting blocks, or even splash the cash (yet to be saved) and buy a new one with said feature.

I would prefer to have a model that would switch easily (i.e. quickly) between the planning and thicknessing functions- should I focus my searches on ones that wind up and down, or ones that you lift the table like a toilet seat? I would prefer not to have o move fences if possible.

My personal experience was an initial set up with separates. Then in one of my 'upgrade' moments moved to the 106pt2 and within a fairly short period of time was looking to move back to separate units (which I've done).

The *** of changing between modes, finding somewhere for the fence and losing settings really, really peed me off.

Don't know what the change cost me (not much Dear, - honest!) but I'm glad I made it. Much happier now.

I like the look of those Barke knives, - anyone have an idea of cost?

 

[custard]

so custard, what is the downtime on your machine, from when you decide to change the replaceable knives, to you next being able to put a board through on your felder?

my axi, with its traditional knives is a good hour i reckon, plus a few days for sharpening because i dont have a spare set. I hate doing the job, so fall into the category of running them long past their best

I've never timed it, but probably no more than ten minutes to change the four blades.

 

[marcros]

so custard, what is the downtime on your machine, from when you decide to change the replaceable knives, to you next being able to put a board through on your felder?

my axi, with its traditional knives is a good hour i reckon, plus a few days for sharpening because i dont have a spare set. I hate doing the job, so fall into the category of running them long past their best

I've never timed it, but probably no more than ten minutes to change the four blades.

you cant complain at that- i will look into these as an option. thanks

 

[heimlaga]

this is strange. the internet is full of complaints over how seemingly impossible it is to replace the knives in a traditional head. though I have never seen it as a problem. i just do it.
I run my 1950-ies 24" combination machine with it's original two knife head and have never felt the slightest need for anything else. the surface turns out all right since bough two new sets of Edessö high speed steel knives and send one set away for sharpening while I use the other. Shifting knives takes less than an hour. On my old 10 inch combination I shifted the knives in less than 30 minutes but longer knives require more time. The surface turns out all right.
I think that the forgotten factor may be the diametre of the head. a thicker head cuts at less of an angle to the grain and this causes less tearout. both my old and my present planer/thicknesser have heads approximately 100 mm in diametre.

High speed steel is a great improvement over carbon steel. My present knives stay sharp more than twice as long as the Stridsberg carbon steel knives I used in my old planer/thicknesser.

my main worry with those non-resharpenable and speciality knives is that it may suddenly become impossible to get replacements or the replacements may become overly expensive when the maker of the head closes down. ordinary HSS knives are a rather timeless design that always can be replaced when worn out and grinding is rather cheap.

just my oppinions based on working pine and birch and spruce.

Edit: I do not own a knife setting jig. I just ure a home made wooden straightedge.

 

[Jacob]

My minimax combi has a very neat blade setting jig which makes the changeover really easy. Still takes 15 minutes or so. I'll post a snap. Out all day tomorrow so it'll be next week probably.
Changing blades on the spiral blocks will take hours and hours unless you cheat and just do the odd one, but it seems that this will not do and will show up on the planed surface.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

My Delta bench top thicknesser has quick-change blades and changing takes a few minutes. If you have the space and budget, I couldn't recommend having two machines enough. Benchtop thicknessers are relatively inexpensive, and the planer can be relatively crude, and probably second-hand.

Nick

 

[yetloh]

There are knife setting gadgets out there. I have two, a Rutlands one which turned out to be too big for the gap between the tables on my Moretens (must get round to putting it on ebay) and an Axminster which I haven't yet needed to use so I can't comment on how much time they save, but if it halves the time it would soon pay for itself in a commercial environment.

Jim

 

[andersonec]

OK if you have the money and space for two machines but really,,,,,,,to complain that it is a PITA to flip up tables which take all of thirty seconds, if not less, is to me the height of laziness, sorry chaps but that's how I see it, how much of a rush are you in?
I have an the older version of the Axminster AW106PT2 and can't fault it as a small workshop/ hobby type machine,
The Hammer machines have a table which tilts as one, includine the fence.
If it were in a busy production workshop then maybe the investment in a large Wadkin type machine with a long, up to 2m table could be considered, not for the 'non tilt table' but for the strength, size and accuracy of such a machine which would have anything up to a six blade cutter block.

Andy

 

[Nick Gibbs]

My complaint isn't so much about time, though that is a consideration, as not liking to touch the bed of a machine once it is set up properly.

Nick

 

[yetloh]

My complaint isn't so much about time, though that is a consideration, as not liking to touch the bed of a machine once it is set up properly.

Nick

Absolutely.

Jim

 

[andersonec]

My complaint isn't so much about time, though that is a consideration, as not liking to touch the bed of a machine once it is set up properly.

Nick

Absolutely.

Jim

Yes, but surely you regularly adjust the depth of cut on the infeed table depending on what you are planing and that is just by turning a knob, the outfeed table should need no adjustment at all once set, it simply sits back to where it was before it was tilted.

Andy

 

[heimlaga]

OK if you have the money and space for two machines but really,,,,,,,to complain that it is a PITA to flip up tables which take all of thirty seconds, if not less, is to me the height of laziness, sorry chaps but that's how I see it, how much of a rush are you in?
I have an the older version of the Axminster AW106PT2 and can't fault it as a small workshop/ hobby type machine,
The Hammer machines have a table which tilts as one, includine the fence.
If it were in a busy production workshop then maybe the investment in a large Wadkin type machine with a long, up to 2m table could be considered, not for the 'non tilt table' but for the strength, size and accuracy of such a machine which would have anything up to a six blade cutter block.

Andy

I think this has a lot to do with the personality of the individual working in the shop. A person who thinks ahead a lot does not loose much time flipping the tables a couple of times a day while a person who has a personality with less order and structure in his/her way of working would have to reset the combination machine 3 or 4 times as often consequently slowing down production considerably and causing some frustration.

It also has a bit to do with the scale of production. I use a big four in one combination because it enables me to make do with a smaller shop thereby reducing costs. If my part time job grew into a full time job I would prefere to have a big enough shop with a 2,5 metres long Jonsered 24" planer and one of those incredibly heavily built 24" Jonsered thicknessers and a monstrous spindle moulder and a big table saw. That would speed up pruduction a quite bit compared to the way I work now but it would also increase the costs for building and heating a shop in a way that my present scale of production cannot carry.
This kind of efficiency versus space thinking applies to hobbyists as well albeit everything is on a smaller scale.

 

[yetloh]

My complaint isn't so much about time, though that is a consideration, as not liking to touch the bed of a machine once it is set up properly.

Nick

Absolutely.

Jim

Yes, but surely you regularly adjust the depth of cut on the infeed table depending on what you are planing and that is just by turning a knob, the outfeed table should need no adjustment at all once set, it simply sits back to where it was before it was tilted.

Andy

In theory, yes. In reality, the more you move big chunks of cast iron the more likely they are to go out of adjustment. Much better all round not to have to do it. Sorry to be a bore but that brings me back to the Moretens, although I realise it will be out of the reach of many. If i didn't have one and couldn't afford one I would try to find space for good separates. That may say something about my personality!

Jim

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I'm a bit of don't like messing with tables and a bit don't like wasting time. And I learnt my woodworking in a factory, so perhaps I've been genetically modified into a Process Related Auto Technologue (PRAT).

Nick