Planer thicknesser help Hammer vs. Sedgwick?

[asanoha]

Hi there

After recently training in fine cabinet making I'm setting up my small workshop. I've only used fairly old sedgwick/ wadkin solid cast iron planer thicknessers so have very little knowledge of newer options available. A fellow maker has suggested the Hammer A3 31 for great accuracy though obviously I've also been looking at second hand sedgwick P/T with max planer width of 300mm. These generally go for around £1000 second hand, while the Hammer is £1700 +
I've been used to hand thicknessing for really fine work and would like a P/T to eliminate this if possible. Rest of my machines will be second hand and as cheap as possible - should the planer/ thicknesser be the one thing not to scrimp on?

Please any help will be very greatly appreciated as I'm really in too minds at the mo.
Cheers

 

[Blister]

Have you looked at the Jet JPT300 ?

very solid machines ans so easy to go from planer to thicknesser

 

[catface]

hello asanoha,
about a year ago I upgraded my tablesaw from Scheppack 2500 to a (new) sedgwick TA315, which is excellent for cabinetmaker use.

After looking at many saws from lots of different makers I was down to choosing between the Sedgwick and a Felder 700 series. The Hammer machines I saw at the Felder showroom were not really in the same league as the Felder k700 series & IMO were not really much better than the Scheppach stuff I already had. Ofcourse I haven't used Hammer & you needto find someone who has used BOTH hammer & sedgwick to get a difiinitive answer.

For myself, the build quality & simplicity of the Sedgwick machines means that their quality much exceeds the Hammer ones ; less "bells and whistles" (digital positioning accessories, etc), but more solidly made, proven low maintenance, and no 'spares issues'. If you want something repairable , which will run all day, with minimum maintenance, I'd go for the sedgwick PT. However, if space is not an issue, and you have access to 3phase supply, there are some good rebuilt Wadkin machines (eg WAdkin BAOS) which have a similar footprint but are better designed/ more robust. I don't know about servicing issues for Wadkins . . .

The only downsides to the Sedgwick PT designs are :

(a) you cannot place it directly against a wall (as the planer fence support bar sticks out the back of the machine, so you need space behind the machine for the bar to move into) and

(b) the sedgwick outfeed table is an integral part of the body of the machine. This means that blade setting is very slightly more difficult (not a big deal), but also means that IF you need to get the outfeed reground (for example on a 2nd hand machine where the outfeed is not flat), you can't take the outfeed table off to send to the engineers,the whole chassis has to go instead ! This is only an issue on 2ndhand machines of dubious antecedents, or if you dont have the experience to check prior to purchase.

However, fixed outfeed table also means accurate planing without having to periodically reset / clean the "dual lifting" tables used on other kinds of PT's, ie the fixed table is going to require less maintenance to retain accuracy of the planer.

One final point. The FElder accessories for mounting quick release outfeed extension tables to their own machines can be retro fitted easily to many others. So you could use these to extend the planer table lengths or thicknesser table lengths just as easily on (say) a sedgwick as on a Hammer PT.
In summary I'd go for the Sedgwick PT.
Hope this helps,
Regards Catface.

 

[Corset]

I have the a sedgwick planer thicknesser. It is second hand and therefore I think i have bought a bit of a pup. I am having a lot of problems with the cutter block letting the blades slip out (nasty). If changing the cutter block gib screws and wedge doesn't solve the problem I am going to very unhappy.
They are very well built but setting the blades is a real pain and dust extraction is a bit fiddly moving the chute from under to over. If I had the choice again I would get quick setting blades ie tersa or similar. I have thicknessing a lot latley of hard woods and it is a pain in the back side gettin the blades set up properly.
Then again this could just be me.
I looked at the hammer planer and it has gone up quite a bit in price recently and I just can't see how it can justify that increase.
Owen

 

[asanoha]

Thanks alot everyone!

mmmm...mixed comments there. I certainly know about the simple build of Sedgwick machines as I own a TA315 and space is not an issue in my new cavernous (freezing) warehouse workshop so a sedgwicks footprint doesn't bother me. The ease of accurate blade placement does draw me to machines such as the hammer though. The main thing with second hand machines is very often they are 5 hours drive away - and going that distance with a straight edge to discover the outfeed is off doesn't appeal

Please if there is any more experience using either of these machines please comment

Cheers

 

[virtu]

Hammer PT fence is not robust in construction comparing to Felder 7 or Sedgwick, methinks the fence is important selection criteria here. I would go for Felder with quick set blades.

 

[trousers]

Hi Asanoha

I had the same dilemma when I went for an upgrade of my gear recently.
My criteria were that it had to snug up tight to a wall, had to have self setting (disposable) blades and be a 12 x 9.
I looked at the Hammer/Felder, Rojek, Jet, Sedgwick, Startrite price bracket new, as well as second hand (ebay etc).
I ended up with a Hammer A3-31, but I have to say it was part of a deal I did with a Felder saw spindle (the best by far I found in it's price range), and it was before the recent 2 price hikes.
If I had the money I would have gone for a Felder P/T because it is in a different league all round the machine compared to the Hammer. But a budget is a budget :roll:
That said, so far I am pretty happy with it. Particulaly like the quick knife change, and the dust extraction is excellent. The extension tables are pricey so I made my own (from ply/mdf) and work a treat. I also find the thicknesser height dial thingy (accessory) very useful.
I think everybody's prices have gone up lately. Mine is now looking a bit pricey new and they are v. rare s/h. Still cheaper than some of the competition though.
Go look, touch, compare, it's the only way.
Where are you - you're welcome to see mine.
Any more info, let me know.

 

[asanoha]

Hi Trousers,

I'm in South Devon/ South London back and forth at the moment. Just spoke to hammer and they are selling the A3 31 for £1900 for basic set up which seems a p*ss take to me quite frankly for a "budget" machine - so that may have sold it for me - though I did ask about ex - showroom models for possible price reductions. Having said that, I would very much like to see one in action if you are anywhere between my two disparate locations.

Ta

 

[trousers]

Yes, I agree the price now is very steep. They do usually do a bit of an event in April at MK where they can be negotiated with (thats how I got my stuff). Watch their website to see if one is coming up this year.
PM me when you are next down in the southwest - you go past my neck of the woods.

 

[JonnyD]

I have the a sedgwick planer thicknesser. It is second hand and therefore I think i have bought a bit of a pup. I am having a lot of problems with the cutter block letting the blades slip out (nasty). If changing the cutter block gib screws and wedge doesn't solve the problem I am going to very unhappy.
They are very well built but setting the blades is a real pain and dust extraction is a bit fiddly moving the chute from under to over. If I had the choice again I would get quick setting blades ie tersa or similar. I have thicknessing a lot latley of hard woods and it is a pain in the back side gettin the blades set up properly.
Then again this could just be me.
I looked at the hammer planer and it has gone up quite a bit in price recently and I just can't see how it can justify that increase.
Owen

Hi i have had a sedgwick MB 12 inch planer for about 8 years now and I have never experienced any of the problems you are encountering. If the cutters keep coming loose i expect it is a fault with the block and changing the wedges and screws may work. I dont find changing the blades particularly taxing i just set them up with a straight edge of the outfeed table with about 3mm of forward travel just takes a bit of practise.

In response the OP question i can highly reccomend the sedgwick the build quality in my opinion is far superior than the hammer. Sometimes the machine is used all day long with no problems and it has never broken down in 8 years of constant daily use. The fixed outfeed table is great in that it the machine retains its settings and you never have to adjust anything apart from the blades. The downside of the fixed outfeed is that thicknessing depth is reduced to around 8mm minimum you can thickness thinner stock by using a sled to feed the timber through.

There are usually plenty on ebay but the newer two tone blue models tend to go for a bit more than the older green ones. Its also worth looking out for some cast in the past machines from wadkin, wilson, robinson etc but they need to be local as transportation and viewing become problematic.

Jon

 

[trousers]

You pays your money and takes your choice.
I agree with JonnyD, the MB is a proverbial brick outhouse and I'd have one tomorrow, but its £3300 new, nearly as much as a Felder.
Incidentally I looked at the Rejekt (sic) and didn't think the build quality was that good - a bit Trabbant (east Eurpoean if you know what I mean) really.
I bought the Hammer cos it ticked the boxes and I got a decent discount.
Time will tell i suppose.

 

[JonnyD]

I saw the Hammer at the felder showroom at Milton Keynes when i was looking for a panel saw. It looked goodvalue at the previous price point. The problem with looking at them at felder is that they seem a little flimsy when you can instantly compare them with a felder or format4.

Jon

 

[johnf]

I have the hammer A3 31 and find it an excellent machine to use the the quick change blades are easy change all three in a few minutes, repeat thicknessing with the dial gauge is a dream. a set of replacement planer blades £16 plus vat I am happy with my Hammer

 

[Jake]

I have the a sedgwick planer thicknesser. It is second hand and therefore I think i have bought a bit of a pup. I am having a lot of problems with the cutter block letting the blades slip out (nasty). If changing the cutter block gib screws and wedge doesn't solve the problem I am going to very unhappy.
They are very well built but setting the blades is a real pain and dust extraction is a bit fiddly moving the chute from under to over. If I had the choice again I would get quick setting blades ie tersa or similar. I have thicknessing a lot latley of hard woods and it is a pain in the back side gettin the blades set up properly.
Then again this could just be me.
I looked at the hammer planer and it has gone up quite a bit in price recently and I just can't see how it can justify that increase.
Owen

I'll bet you could buy a new TERSA block for it for a few hundred and get the best of both worlds.

 

[asanoha]

Thanks for all the info & suggestions people. This forum is so helpful - cheers

 

[Tazio]

I had a Sedgwick MB12 in my joinery for 4 years it was secoundhand but ran perfectly and although simple was very well built ...replaced now with monster guellat 7’ bed mechine and 24” guellat thicknesser however if I went back to a small mechine and especially secound would go for another sedgwick .

 

[DBT85]

Tazio, welcome to the forum. I fear your perspective might be lost on the original poster as the other posts in this thread are now 12 years old.

 

[deema]

Here is my opinion, it’s based in my experiences and is just my view. As a hobby I refurbish and service wood working machines. I have a Felder bandsaw in my own workshop, it’s the worst built machine I own IMO. Yes it looks nice, but build wise, it’s absolutely awful in comparison. I also avoid buying Felder and Hammer machines to refurbish as they are not built for maintenance. The important stuff is usually buried in the machine often needing to gain access from underneath to do anything. Again, in my humble opinion, avoid anything with aluminium main parts, particularly fences. They simply, I don’t believe work, you want cast iron.
The older, original versions of the Sedgwick PTs are brilliant. I can’t comment on the latest version, as I haven’t worked in one yet! Solid cast iron cores, with simple setup, and an easy to repair design. They are IMO the best machines in their price range available. If at all possible get one with a Tersa block. I personally don’t rate and believe it’s mostly marketing hype the fad for spiral blocks. I originally looked at both, I chose a Tersa, for lots of reasone. However, just to say I don't get tear out, and it’s not noisy, and best of all it takes literally seconds to change the blades and it’s absolutely guaranteed they won’t be loose or come out.
The other brand I would suggest you should look out for is SCM. Again extremely well engineered machines, run for ever, particularly the older L’Invincible range. Equally Dominion and Wadkin are good machines, particularly the 16” Dominion.

 

[Cabinetman]

Deema just took the words out of my mouth, I have an SCM with a Tersa block, I’ve been using it in my furniture workshop for eight years now, and it was secondhand when I got it, highly recommend it, mine takes 350mm blades and the finish is superb. Ian

 

[ndbrown]

My first planer/thicknesser was a Sedgwick PT255 (10”) width. You can find my complete teardown and rebuild of this machine starting as a seized rusting hulk else where on the site, complemented by a SCM Minimax S45 Bandsaw. These are two most used machines in my workshop. I ran the Sedgwick with Bark TCT reversible blades fault free for 3 years but as I am in a residential area and it was very loud in thicknessing mode I changed over to a Spiral block Hammer A3 and shortly after that also changed the S45 Bandsaw to a Hammer N4400. All machines ran and have so far run absolutely fine and all have done everything I have asked. Most of the recent work has been in Iroko, American White Oak and hard Maple. Not turned any of the TCT cutters on the block so far in the last 3 years. Value for money a secondhand Sedgwick I would say is the way to go but I am really pleased with the Hammer. I like the lower noise and the smoother hand feed in planer mode as its cutting continuously as you feed it rather than 2 hits per revolution on the Sedgwick block. Results on planed wood with either Sedgwick or Hammer are pretty similar. I dont see any of the longitudinal plane tracks that were present on the early spiral blocks, probably down to better controlled tolerances on the block and cutters. Not any significant difference in changeover time either from Planer to Thicknesser. I have not personally seen less tearout on the spiral block compared the the Sedgwick but definitely a massive reduction in noise. That aspect won’t be an issue for everyone but it did become an issue for me. I think the SCM machines are also very nicely built but not as well marketed as far as I can tell at the lower end of the market.