Planer/Thicknesser and extraction

[morpheus83uk]

Hello,

I am looking at getting a planer thicknesser so I can joint more boards together and have them parallel. What would people recommend?

I am also looking at chip extraction for my router table, lathe and the planer thicknesser. What would people recommend? Something that could be wall mounted and easily transportable would be ideal as the lathe, planer thicknesser would be on one side of the garage and the router table on the other. It's only a small garage so all the other stuff gets in the way but potential for some tubing maybe if I can find a permanent home for everything could be considered.

All ideas welcome.

Thanks

James

 

[sunnybob]

The simplest dust extractor that is mobile would be something like the axminster craft
https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-c ... tor-105111

Use 100 mm hose and roll it from machine to machine. It even has wall brackets so you can hang it up.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thank you. I have read the reviews on this and its description it seems like it would be a pain to remove the waste as it has to be removed from the 100mm hole it was extracted via.

I have also read about planer thicknesser needing 1000CFM. Would this be sufficient? Also would I be able to step the hose size down as I dont know how big my port is on my router table. And I wont be able to find out until weekend.

Do you have any recommendations on a planer thicknesser?

Thanks

 

[MikeG.]

Thank you. I have read the reviews on this and its description it seems like it would be a pain to remove the waste as it has to be removed from the 100mm hole it was extracted via.

I have also read about planer thicknesser needing 1000CFM. Would this be sufficient? Also would I be able to step the hose size down as I dont know how big my port is on my router table. And I wont be able to find out until weekend.

Do you have any recommendations on a planer thicknesser?

Thanks

You only need a "Henry"-type vacuum cleaner for your router table. £30-ish on Ebay.

 

[sunnybob]

You wanted it simple. I gave you simple. Its wall mountable when not in use.
If you want an easier emptying system you could use the same extractor but put a cyclone and waste bin in the system. this works very well, but a 100 mm cyclone is another 120 quid, the bin will cost something, the ducting will cost, so you have just gone from £200 to about £450. It also takes up a lot of room and is no longer easily movable so is no longer simple.
As far as reviews, I have the above system, its been working well for about 18 months so far.
A planer thicknesser needs a 100 mm minimum hose and extractor. Anything smaller will constantly jam up with the much bigger chips and sheer volume of waste.
As said, you CAN get by with a smaller vacuum for a router table if you connect the hose to the supplied plastic collector on the router.

 

[transatlantic]

You might want to look at the typical barrel type extractors (Record Dx1000 etc), or the more expensive CamVac models. Both of which have optional adaptors from 100mm to 32mm.

Emptying is still a pain though. The CamVac comes with a fabric filter that wraps around the top of the drum and gets absolutely caked in fine dust, and apparently needs a good clean each time to maintain suction. It's a proper "put on a mask and go outside job".

And you still need to bag it anyway to put it in your black bin, unless you want it going everywhere when the bin men come (I learnt that lesson!)

Cyclones are a good option, but you need a lot of space for them.

 

[Inspector]

I have also read about planer thicknesser needing 1000CFM. Would this be sufficient? Also would I be able to step the hose size down as I dont know how big my port is on my router table. And I wont be able to find out until weekend.

A 4" pipe can only move about 400CFM, with flex hose because of the rougher surfaces, less.
A 6" pipe can move 1000CFM, with the flex also less.
Flex hose has two to three times the losses that the same length of ducting does. Use a little as you can.
The CFM or cubic metres per hour ratings of a dust collector are based on testing the impeller only and not with filters or any ducting, using the best reading they can get. Practically speaking the airflow will be about half of what the brochure says.
To pull a 1000CFM you need at least a 2hp DC right beside the machine you are using. To duct from one end of the shop you need a 3hp machine.
A cartridge filtered DC is preferable over most bagged ones. They have fewer leaks and not all bags can filter as fine.
A small DC can grab the chips and sawdust you can see but doesn't have the airflow to grab the very fine stuff that floats in the air for hours. Hence the suggestion of a 2hp or bigger DC. Even though many people say planers don't make fine dust it isn't true.
If you do get a smaller DC wear a good mask even after you finish machining etc. If you can put an exhaust fan in to ventilate the shop you can clear the air faster. It comes at a price of loss of heat.

Pete

 

[beech1948]

I've been through a bit of a journey re dust collection.

Started with a 750w thing similar to the Axminster Craft item. It was underpowered and did not suck hard enough.

Moved onto 2x Record DX4000's ( long thin workshop) which suffered from issues with unloading the collected dusts and also being very very very noisy. Did I say noisy. I emptied both about every 3 days.

Moved recently onto a Pentz style cyclone built by myself and a friendly metal basher with a 4hp motor and 6 inch pipe. It does take up quite a a lot of room and will have to go into it's own shed this summer. I regret the 6 inch pipe and should have gone for 8 inch for greater air flow.

Lessons learned in this journey were:-
a) All suppliers lie their heads off about the volume of air moved so reduce claims by 50% or more.
b) Bigger is always better eg 8 inch pipe
c) Cyclones are expensive in the UK and being sold at daft prices so consider making your own

Al

 

[MikeG.]

I noted with interest that the Acorn to Arabella mob last week built an extraction system for their petrol-powered massive planer thicknesser which was pretty much exactly the same as the drop-box I built for my workshop vacuums 15 or 20 years ago. Expensive or awkward to make cyclones are unnecessary.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Tha k you all for your suggestions and advice I will start having a look around at whafs been mentioned. I have a fine dust filter in the garage for the fine dust particles and I always wear a mask anyway. It's more good removal from a planer thicknesser, router table and lathe really. As I dont have much space and it could be a pain to empty the axminster one could a bag be attacked instead to remove the waste easier? Or would that just cause more issues? Just thinking out loud.

Also why would a cyclone help with the emptying? Is that the thing that separates the chips from fine dust and puts the chips etc in a bag? If that's what they are called I apologise I just never know what they were called.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a planer thicknesser? As reviews online all seem to come out with different ones and i cant really seem to find consistency. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Inspector]

A cyclone drops the shavings, sawdust and if sized and designed properly, the fine dust into a barrel or bin for disposal. They extend the time before cleaning filters. All cyclones and pre-separators reduce the amount of suction because of internal drag just like ducts, elbows and hoses do. Efficient ones about 2" of water and poor ones up to 4" or more. That means more power to overcome the drag.

Pete

 

[Doug71]

I would suggest getting 2 extractors, a chip extractor for the PT and a vacuum type for the router.

 

[sunnybob]

Product reviews are almost useless nowadays in deciding what to buy. People dont seem to understand how it works. I have seen a product get 5 stars from a man who admitted he hadnt opened the box, but the box looked professional and it was delivered on time! :roll:

A good rule of thumb is to compare prices of similar manufacturers products, then buy one one somewhere around the middle price. Buy it from a national dealer, and then you are covered for three years warranty or return.

As said above, a cyclone can make your waste disposal easier by diverting everything into a more easily accessible bin or bag. you will still need to clean fine dust out of the filter, but nowhere near as often. Bigger cyclones are very rare, axminster has now started selling a 100 mm one that is reasonably priced (wish I could get one shipped to me without paying double the price on shipping). Drop boxes are much cheaper to build, but take up a lot more space.

Planer/thicknessers produce HUGE amounts of waste :shock: even more than lathes I think. Expect to empty the bins after every couple of planks.

 

[user22161]

it could be a pain to empty the axminster one could a bag be attacked instead to remove the waste easier? Or would that just cause more issues? Just thinking out loud.

I had the Charnwood version of the Axminster one sunnybob linked to. Some years ago now but I don't remember any problems in emptying it, IIRC it has a zip down the bag but phone them to check on this. It worked fine for single tool on short hose supplied, in my case then a Record PT or TS. I use shop vac for router table, sanders etc.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thank you all for your recommendations on the extraction.

I have been having a look around at the bench top planer thicknesser and the ones I see around the most are Titan, Scheppach and Erbauer. I there there seems to be a few Clarke??? Ones about too none of the main brand names like Bosch, Makita, Dewalt seem to do planer thicknessers. They seem to just be thicknessers.

Does anyone have any advice on any of the above?

Thanks

James

 

[user22161]

I had an Erbauer and the planer on mine was rubbish, tables weren't coplanar and can't be adjusted, there are reports of the same problem on some machines of the other badged clones, having said that there are no doubt good ones as well, it's most likely a quality control problem. Quite a few floor standing PTs around, bottom end of those is maybe the Record PT260 which I have, that's also available under different badges such as Metabo.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thank you for that. The issue I have is I have no floor space for a free standing one, which is why I am looking for a bench top planer thicknesser. Are there any which are decent?

Thanks

James

 

[morpheus83uk]

Hello I have been looking around and it looks like its going to be between these two unless anyone has any other suggestions? If not which would people go with and why?

SCHEPPACH HMS1070
TITAN TTB579PLN

Thanks

James

 

[DBT85]

James, I recently took delivery of the titan and what little use its had so far suggests its going to be useful if limited. But then it's like £160 so there have to be some limits on expectations. More for me as I didn't even pay for it!

The infeed on my jointer is not quite coplanar with the outfeed. A straight edge on the outfeed will show a 1mm gap to the infeed next to the blade, but 0mm at the other side.. A bit of pressure makes it so, but it should be perfect. While it "can't be adjusted" I'm sure it could be fiddled into action, I've just not yet had the time.

Changing the extraction around will be a pain in the backside if it's going to be done regularly, the thicknesser adjustment handle also moves slowly on its own when the machine is in operation, and the fence isn't flat. Now, the fence could be changed quite easily, and everything else probably fettled.

You do get what you pay for. But at £160 it will do a job that few can do for anything close to it.

 

[user22161]

Hello I have been looking around and it looks like its going to be between these two unless anyone has any other suggestions? If not which would people go with and why?

SCHEPPACH HMS1070
TITAN TTB579PLN

Thanks

James

My experience has been that Scheppach spares have been available for years whereas various other branded clones haven't been - Screwfix in particular.