Plane Dilemma
- Thread starter Petey83
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
richarddownunder
Established Member
Interested to know how you find the Ray Iles irons - D2 I believe.
Cheers
Richard
Cheers
Richard
richarddownunder":yyekd4va said:
I believe they are O1 but I stand to be corrected.
Planes arrived today and initial impressions are they have been well restored. The Ray Iles irons are thicker than the factory originals but he had mentioned that on the phone.
I'll do a fuller right up once I've had the chance to check everything over in detail, hone the irons and butcher some wood.
thetyreman
Established Member
they are O1 yes, I have some ray isles plough plane blades that are superb, not tried the plane blades but quality of steel seems really good.
It's hard to do O1 bad in terms of fineness and hitting a hardness mark.
The reason that it's falling out of fashion on newer planes is because it warps when it's quenched and it costs a few extra pennies in machine time to true up the hardened blades.
Every good western (euro or american) O1 steel that I've used has made spectacular blades (and every one of them has warped some). Almost without exception, if you cut 80% (or all if you like) of the bevel on before quenching them, they will warp away from the bevel side - just what you'd like to have as a bias if you have a choice. I suppose that favorable little hollow leaves unacceptable cosmetics in it and thus it's ground off. Which is too bad. (I will admit that it's not always an attractive way that it's warped - sometimes it's at the end (like bowed lumber).
The reason that it's falling out of fashion on newer planes is because it warps when it's quenched and it costs a few extra pennies in machine time to true up the hardened blades.
Every good western (euro or american) O1 steel that I've used has made spectacular blades (and every one of them has warped some). Almost without exception, if you cut 80% (or all if you like) of the bevel on before quenching them, they will warp away from the bevel side - just what you'd like to have as a bias if you have a choice. I suppose that favorable little hollow leaves unacceptable cosmetics in it and thus it's ground off. Which is too bad. (I will admit that it's not always an attractive way that it's warped - sometimes it's at the end (like bowed lumber).
I did start to flatten the backs this evening but realised after some time that the ultrex diamond plate I was using wasn't flat accross the length. Never noticed it doing chisels so guess the bigger plane iron made it more obvious.
So in short I've likely created a little more work for myself to get them flat on the waterstones tomorrow.
So in short I've likely created a little more work for myself to get them flat on the waterstones tomorrow.
I've seen diamond hones that are up to about a sheet of office paper hollow across the length (same quality class as that). People will poo poo you for talking about thousandths, but that amount of hollow will actually cause you more subsequent work. Does the ultex have an opposite side that's convex? If so, I'd start there.
If no other choices, do the back work deliberately going off the edge of the hollow side.
If no other choices, do the back work deliberately going off the edge of the hollow side.
I have a couple of those Iles irons that I bought off here. One to replace a short iron in an old 5 I bought. The other is still in the bag but will fit a wider plane like a 4 1/2. Heres my very amateur thoughts. Again, I qualify as someone who enjoys hand work but at the lowest order of experience so be warned.
The irons are great. O1. For my needs that's the perfect steel tbh without getting sidetracked. Im guessing why it's so often used. As people get more experienced they may develop other needs of course.
Anyway.
The irons are well finished and the winner is that they are a bit thicker but not so much thicker that :
1. You don't need to open the mouth. 2. They are not so thick that sharpening is a drawback.
3. The extra thickness probably helps with chatter and so on but I don't know so I'm not going to pretend to. Even I would guess most of that is eliminated via other means of fettling/ setting a plane with experience.
4.That actually they are not much thicker than original stanley irons.
5. The difference ( I think) comes when you add an Iles cap iron. That's the muscle. All of a sudden you have a leaning towards an expensive LN type setup for the cost of a LN plane sock or some such nonsense with a cheap well set up bailey. Its clever.
Not trying to convince anyone I'm right because I honestly have no idea if I am but it seems to be smart thinking. On my very best set up and favourite plane (the 5) I'd still get occasions where wood got stuck between the iron and cap on occasion. Sure it was user error but still. With this I don't. You lock it in and it stays there. It's engineered better in my opinion.
No 5 with Iles and 41/2 original. They both cut ok tbh. Maybe if you are very experienced it's night and day but not for me in practice.
Hope its helpful. Or well intentioned at the very least lol.
Cheers.
Chris
The irons are great. O1. For my needs that's the perfect steel tbh without getting sidetracked. Im guessing why it's so often used. As people get more experienced they may develop other needs of course.
Anyway.
The irons are well finished and the winner is that they are a bit thicker but not so much thicker that :
1. You don't need to open the mouth. 2. They are not so thick that sharpening is a drawback.
3. The extra thickness probably helps with chatter and so on but I don't know so I'm not going to pretend to. Even I would guess most of that is eliminated via other means of fettling/ setting a plane with experience.
4.That actually they are not much thicker than original stanley irons.
5. The difference ( I think) comes when you add an Iles cap iron. That's the muscle. All of a sudden you have a leaning towards an expensive LN type setup for the cost of a LN plane sock or some such nonsense with a cheap well set up bailey. Its clever.
Not trying to convince anyone I'm right because I honestly have no idea if I am but it seems to be smart thinking. On my very best set up and favourite plane (the 5) I'd still get occasions where wood got stuck between the iron and cap on occasion. Sure it was user error but still. With this I don't. You lock it in and it stays there. It's engineered better in my opinion.
No 5 with Iles and 41/2 original. They both cut ok tbh. Maybe if you are very experienced it's night and day but not for me in practice.
Hope its helpful. Or well intentioned at the very least lol.
Cheers.
Chris
Bm101":2swwphgs said:I have a couple of those Iles irons that I bought off here. One to replace a short iron in an old 5 I bought. The other is still in the bag but will fit a wider plane like a 4 1/2. Heres my very amateur thoughts. Again, I qualify as someone who enjoys hand work but at the lowest order of experience so be warned.
The irons are great. O1. For my needs that's the perfect steel tbh without getting sidetracked. Im guessing why it's so often used. As people get more experienced they may develop other needs of course.
Anyway.
The irons are well finished and the winner is that they are a bit thicker but not so much thicker that :
1. You don't need to open the mouth. 2. They are not so thick that sharpening is a drawback.
3. The extra thickness probably helps with chatter and so on but I don't know so I'm not going to pretend to. Even I would guess most of that is eliminated via other means of fettling/ setting a plane with experience.
4.That actually they are not much thicker than original stanley irons.
5. The difference ( I think) comes when you add an Iles cap iron. That's the muscle. All of a sudden you have a leaning towards an expensive LN type setup for the cost of a LN plane sock or some such nonsense with a cheap well set up bailey. Its clever.
Not trying to convince anyone I'm right because I honestly have no idea if I am but it seems to be smart thinking. On my very best set up and favourite plane (the 5) I'd still get occasions where wood got stuck between the iron and cap on occasion. Sure it was user error but still. With this I don't. You lock it in and it stays there. It's engineered better in my opinion.
No 5 with Iles and 41/2 original. They both cut ok tbh. Maybe if you are very experienced it's night and day but not for me in practice.
Hope its helpful. Or well intentioned at the very least lol.
Cheers.
Chris
I actually found I did need to slightly open up the mouth of the number 5 as even with the frog right back it was closed up to fine for heavy work.
The irons themselves are lovely, it took me a while to flattern the backs on the water stones this evening after my issue with the diamond plate yesterday but funnily enough the same concave plate helped with getting a bit of a camber on the irons this evening.
It took me a little while to gel with the planes due ring rust on my part but got some good results on a piece of Cedar of Lebanon I had in the rack.
The planes themselves came with replacement bubinga wood which Ray tells me comes from the same guy that made them for Clifton before bubinga became band for export.
The number 4 was dead flat but the 5 was not. Ray offered to regrind it but I just out it over some 120 and 220 grit on a glass lapping plate and all seems well.
