Plane blade edge from a Tormek?

[Craig22]

Yes I couldn’t place it for a second but we had one at the school where I first taught, I wouldn’t say I ever walked away for a coffee and left it running though lol. I can still smell the cutting fluid even now. Depends on the stone obviously but we always sharpened on an oil stone afterwards, the grinding marks were quite pronounced. Ian

I guess it was probably down to the state of the blade , but I certainly remember it being used totally unattended.

Yes - the oil had a characteristic smell. I toyed for a while about buying and restoring one.

Perhaps the smell was more to do with the oil going off - like the white cutting fluid pumped around a metalworking lathe, which is prone to bacterial growth, and needs to be changed frequently.

Looking at the manual (downloadable from somewhere) the wheel is 80 grit rotating at 120rpm, and so is pretty aggressive. So although my recollection is a bit foggy at a half century distance, Rand must have used a second step to get rid of the grinding marks from the wheel. And the manual says "use only our specific anti-bacterial oil", and it says to change it frequently.

The Viceroy weighed in at 127kg! So a beast indeed.

 

[TRITON]

Nit picking!

Nit picking ?, i thought it was more a case of being held to account.

You dont want to be using the traits of these tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists do you ?, constantly moving the goalposts

 

[TRITON]

I wondered what it was, so went looking. It's a beast.....

Interesting gouge setup with that cone.

View attachment 125324

We have a thing in the meat trade called a Sharpenset(not too dissimilar a name to viceroy's 'Sharpedge') and does pretty much the same thing, with the sharpenset being a small whetstone with a constant water feed and much like the viceroy,designed to be used multiple times per day, so has an industrial motor in it.
Knives, like plane irons and chisels are expendable edges. I would go through a knife in that environment every 6 months or so, as you at many times in the day take your knife to it and hone up a super sharp edge. No attention was taken to preserving the tool, the tool is a disposable item. And chisels and plane irons are too disposable items.
The point is to have a razor sharp edge, easily resharpened many times during the day to make the task at hand easier, with the minimum of downtime and loss of income.

Standing for hours in a week, rehoning or resharpening a chisel or iron just didnt happen, because it is uneconomical to do so.

Nobody is saying you cannot or should not use a small sharpening stone, but that doesnt mean to say it is a better system. If you are a hobbist, and prefer to shoot the breeze, then by all means buy a series of Japanese, or Arkansas stones and stand there for hours. All you are really doing is wasting your own time.

 

[Doug71]

I have a Tormek which has spent the last 10 years in a cupboard, I find the whole process too slow.

I freehand on a diamond stone and use the bench grinder when needed.

Quick, easy and the results are sharp enough for my needs.

 

[Adam W.]

We have a thing in the meat trade called a Sharpenset(not too dissimilar a name to viceroy's 'Sharpedge') and does pretty much the same thing, with the sharpenset being a small whetstone with a constant water feed and much like the viceroy,designed to be used multiple times per day, so has an industrial motor in it.
Knives, like plane irons and chisels are expendable edges. I would go through a knife in that environment every 6 months or so, as you at many times in the day take your knife to it and hone up a super sharp edge. No attention was taken to preserving the tool, the tool is a disposable item. And chisels and plane irons are too disposable items.
The point is to have a razor sharp edge, easily resharpened many times during the day to make the task at hand easier, with the minimum of downtime and loss of income.

Standing for hours in a week, rehoning or resharpening a chisel or iron just didnt happen, because it is uneconomical to do so.

Nobody is saying you cannot or should not use a small sharpening stone, but that doesnt mean to say it is a better system. If you are a hobbist, and prefer to shoot the breeze, then by all means buy a series of Japanese, or Arkansas stones and stand there for hours. All you are really doing is wasting your own time.

Depends how much of your day you use on sharpening, I guess.

I tried a little experiment today with a 2" spindle roughing gouge. I can re-sharpen that edge to a better finish in less time on a red India with WD40, than I can on my Tormek.

So I guess, I'm wasting more time sharpening on a Tormek, than I am on a cheap Norton oil stone.

I don't have any Arkansas stones or Japanese stones, as I just don't see the point. A bit of free slate works just lovely, and I'm not going to spend any more money on sharpening stuff, as I spend so little of my time doing it.

I like what I have and it works well for me. If I can shave hair with the edge I get on my bench tools, why should I think more about upgrading or trying to get things sharper when they are sharp enough already ?

I should be more worried about getting faster and better at chopping at wood, that's where I'll save my time.

 

[Craig22]

I have an oilstone in a nice wooden box, hardly used. Perhaps it was just me not using it right - buy I always had the problem with oil transferring from my fingers to whatever I was working on. So I'm a bit of a slave to water stones. Quick wipe of the hands, job done.

Cosman uses a bench grinder, the rougher the wheel the better, he says. Runs cooler cutting than a fine grit stone to define the primary bevel. He then uses Shapston stones for finishing the edge, by feel, ie without a jig. You need deep pockets for sure for a set of Shapston stones.

So I just use 800, 1200, 4000 and 10,000 waterstones. Occasionally flattened on emery paper on a granite slab. I tried to get away from that faff by buying a King waterstone flattening thingy, which is actually not fit for purpose, and will soon end up in the shop bin.

I tend to use a Tormek to produce the primary bevel, somewhat laborious though that is. Might get a hefty tool support for the bench grinder and see how that goes.

Krenov, by the way used a hand cranked grinder with a small diameter wheel. He said that the short radius bevel on his rather thick blades made a secondary bevel dead easy - you just set the blade with the bevel flat on whatever method he used.

 

[spanner48]

I've kept out of posting to this long and winding thread, so I thought I'd go back a bit. At school in the 60's and early 70's we had a woodworking room with benches and Record vices, and a lathe with a big sanding disc on the end. A metalworking room with lathes, pillar drill, forge etc. And between the two a wood and metal store, and an area for sand casting, brazing and welding. In a state school in the NE of the UK. Back in the day when kids were actually taught practical stuff, and how to use dangerous tools and methods safely.

Anyway, the woodworking teacher, Mr Rand, had to deal with the sort of abused tools that schoolkids could produce with nicked edges on planes and chisels. So at the end of the shop was a Viceroy. And that had a set of sharpening jigs for various tools. So Rand would quickly set it up, shove in an abused blade, set it going and go and have a coffee. Repeat as necessary. I can't remember him ever using a strop or any secondary sharpening steps (probably not necessary for us young oiks), although he might have done so for his own work.

Pretty much the same here. In 1958 I was at a small, obscure 'Public School', which had a woodwork shop with NO electrical devices or supplies, except the lights. A lathe? Yes - but treadle-powered. Everything else by hand. Open 24/7, with NO( supervision. The only condition was that, if you were interested and committed, you had to agree to sharpen any tools for the youngsters who'd made a mess and blunted them. By the time I was 14, I could sharpen pretty much anything.

I mentioned this recently to a teacher at our local Comp. He was appalled: if he tried that, he said, he'd certainly be dismissed, and possibly prosecuted . . . . . .

So now I run a Repair Café, and encourage the kids to come along, see how useful repair work gets done, and hopefully join in and learn to do it themselves.

Because otherwise, they have no chance.

 

[Adam W.]

I was at an East London comprehensive and we were taught that the lathe was in that corner and the gouges were hanging in the rack by the side of the window.

It was quite exciting and Brian Phillips got his fingers trapped between the chuck and key and the bed of the metalwork lathe, but that's a story for another day.

 

[Sundial Colin]

Im with cabinetman - I was a 'Mr Rand'. The viceroy was not a machine to do a quick upgrade, but one to do 40 plane blades and 80 chisels before term started, or after school ready for exams (in days of old when GCE tested practical skills). The oil was distinctive and if it splashed onto your clothes it was there for life, hence old clothes.

 

[transatlantic]

I guess my thinking with the Tormek was that it would be quicker as given that it's cutting at a faster rate than hand stones (a powered strop wheel evenmore so), instead of having to work up the grits with stones, you can just go straight to the honing wheel each time. And as the honing wheel is generally used freehand. It's just a flick of a switch. No messing around with flattening stones etc.

I appreciate that you would need to flatten every now and then

 

[Jacob]

I have an oilstone in a nice wooden box, hardly used. Perhaps it was just me not using it right - buy I always had the problem with oil transferring from my fingers to whatever I was working on. So I'm a bit of a slave to water stones. Quick wipe of the hands, job done.
......

Oil - quick wipe of the hands, job done. A lot of people don't seem to be able to make this leap!
Also oil is benign to the tools and does no harm to wood - wipes off easily and doesn't raise the grain.
A regular supply of old rags, cotton or linen bed sheets best, is handy and they can be washed.
The only novelty for me was to use a rare earth magnet to lift the swarf, leaving clean oil behind on the stone.

 

[Jacob]

..... No messing around with flattening stones etc.
....

Have never flattened an oil stone (or any sort of stone) in 50 years - except once as an experiment (pointless).

 

[hlvd]

Have never flattened an oil stone in 50 years - except once as an experiment (pointless).

You just purchased a new India Norton if it had gone too far, either combination or same both sides, that was it

 

[Jacob]

You just purchased a new India Norton if it had gone too far, either combination or same both sides, that was it

I've still got my first - bought about 1966 in Woolworths. It's only 6" so I added others (8") to my small collection. Three combi stones would last a typical user for life I think. Though perhaps there are no typical users!

 

[D_W]

I guess my thinking with the Tormek was that it would be quicker as given that it's cutting at a faster rate than hand stones (a powered strop wheel evenmore so), instead of having to work up the grits with stones, you can just go straight to the honing wheel each time. And as the honing wheel is generally used freehand. It's just a flick of a switch. No messing around with flattening stones etc.

I appreciate that you would need to flatten every now and then

Not sure if you've tried using a honing wheel freehand, but at low speed with soft leather, the honing wheel will round an edge. It's not going to hone an long flat area well - it'll cut slowly on the flat bits and round over the edges.

 

[Cabinetman]

The only novelty for me was to use a rare earth magnet to lift the swarf, leaving clean oil behind on the stone.

Now why did I never think of that! I suppose put the magnet in a rag first. Brilliant Ian

 

[Jacob]

Now why did I never think of that! I suppose put the magnet in a rag first. Brilliant Ian

Took me some years to hit on it!
I also use one to get nails out of the woodburner ash. When its cold put the magnet in a plastic mug, drag it through the ashes, pull magnet out of mug and nails fall into ash can.

 

[Max Power]

It's a coarse and fine silicon carbide stone (as well as a diamond truing tool). When you run the silicon carbide stone over the alumina wheel, the abrasive is crushed/cut by the grading stone into a finer surface.

Think of it like rasping wood or sanding it with finer sandpaper to change the texture of the surface.

Most people discard the grading stone fairly quickly with tormeks and go just to using them as a grinder. The diamond truing tool works better for freshening the wheel, but its method of use removes material from the wheel, though, and the wheels aren't cheap! I tried several different wheels in an attempt to make the tormek faster as a honing tool, but what you've come to is where most people end up - the accessories get forgotten and the tool becomes a grinder with occassional use of the leather.

I can't remember but another pro on here at one time made a good point - in his shop, the insurer would not allow sparks, so the tormek was the machine of need for grinding. They are a pretty effective grinder if the grind wheel is kept as fresh as possible.

I've kept out of posting to this long and winding thread, so I thought I'd go back a bit. At school in the 60's and early 70's we had a woodworking room with benches and Record vices, and a lathe with a big sanding disc on the end. A metalworking room with lathes, pillar drill, forge etc. And between the two a wood and metal store, and an area for sand casting, brazing and welding. In a state school in the NE of the UK. Back in the day when kids were actually taught practical stuff, and how to use dangerous tools and methods safely.

Anyway, the woodworking teacher, Mr Rand, had to deal with the sort of abused tools that schoolkids could produce with nicked edges on planes and chisels. So at the end of the shop was a Viceroy. And that had a set of sharpening jigs for various tools. So Rand would quickly set it up, shove in an abused blade, set it going and go and have a coffee. Repeat as necessary. I can't remember him ever using a strop or any secondary sharpening steps (probably not necessary for us young oiks), although he might have done so for his own work.

I remember using one at College to do my own tools where I did my C&G carpentry and joinery back in the late 70s. Mr Robson who looked after the woodwork shop used to let me go in outside of class time, which was really handy as the college was opposite my parents house.
Mr Mearns, another great bloke was the teacher, my first mentor, who really encouraged me and left me with a lifetime passion for all things woodworking