Plane Advice

[sniks7]

I need a plane. Anyone got any ideas?! I'm a beginner at this and just need something to get me going.

What plane would be good for general purpose use?

Is it worth getting an LN, LV second hand on ebay? Can I get away with something from Stanley?

I tend to get par boards, so I just need a plane for finishing off my dodgy saw work.

Any help, or pointers to where I can find this sort of thing out would be gratefully appreciated!

 

[xraymtb]

You don't mention budget?

You will no doubt get a lot of people telling you how bad Stanley planes are now and that you absolutely, positively, must have a LN, but with some fettling and attention almost all planes will give reasonable service. Just have a search on this forum to see the results.

Personally, I would say for a beginner to save money initially and get something like a Stanley (or even cheaper - Axminster?). Sharpen it properly, flatten the sole if you really want to, and learn how to use it. Find out if you actually enjoy hand planing and then progress to the better quality makes later - if you don't use the planes much then you have saved a fair bit of cash. When starting out, there are so many tools to buy that you really need to be clear about what you are going to use most and what might end up spending most of its time sitting on a shelf.

I personally started out with a second hand Stanley #4 and an Axminster 60 1/2 block plane. After an hour or two in the workshop, they both take nice, clean, fine cuts and are more than adequate for cleaning up my mistakes.

That said, if I was without my thicknesser and planer, I would probably want to spend a bit of cash on a decent larger plane for flattening boards.

 

[lurker]

Give us a clue where you live and I'm sure someone will help you out.

For instance I have a fettled stanley No 4 you can have for a tenner but collection only.

 

[sniks7]

Just the advice I was looking for - thanks!

I'm in Winchester, Hants, so popping up to Leics would probably cost me a small workshop of tools in petrol these days, but many thanks for the offer.

I'm not particularly bothered about budget, but given my lack of experience I could just as easily ruin a decent piece of kit as fettle it, so a stanley or axminster plane might make sense. The axminster one comes with a box which would be useful for weighing things down, too.

I shall walk into my local hostelry and shout: "Give me a pint of your finest ale and a number four!" and see what happens.

 

[pam niedermayer]

I always recommend the LN or LV low angle jacks for a first plane. They pretty much work out of the box, are very flexible (they do lots of planing jobs), and do these planing jobs quite nicely.

Pam

 

[woodbloke]

I always recommend the LN or LV low angle jacks for a first plane. They pretty much work out of the box, are very flexible (they do lots of planing jobs), and do these planing jobs quite nicely.

Pam

...except that sniks7 will be only able to use it one handed as he'll have to part with the other arm to pay for one. He stated that he was a beginner and as such ought (in my view) to be pointed down the road where a moderate investment in something decent secondhand (don't buy new) would be a more sensible option.
Fwiw a short run over to Salisbury for a visit to Penny Farthing Tools will give you more than ample choice for a good, reasonably priced first plane...I'd recommend a No5 - Rob

 

[mr]

The perennial problem though is unless you know what good performance is or rather how good performance can be then you don't know how well your fettling is going or how well your refurbed Stanley is doing. I had refurbed Stanleys and Records and it wasn't until I got hold of a LV jack that I understood that all my fettling had been a waste of time because they still weren't performing well. It was at this point I understood what was causing the previous frustrations and from there how to proceed. I just didn't understand as a beginner what sharp was or what good performance is. With no one to show you its a difficult thing so buying a decent new plane particularly one which will hold its value for resale is not such a bad idea imho.

Cheers Mike

 

[pam niedermayer]

...except that sniks7 will be only able to use it one handed as he'll have to part with the other arm to pay for one. He stated that he was a beginner and as such ought (in my view) to be pointed down the road where a moderate investment in something decent secondhand (don't buy new) would be a more sensible option....

What Mike said, plus the advantage of buying the LN is that as you become more expert and start replacing its functions with specific planes, the LN gets almost the entire purchase price back on ebay. Not sure about the resale value of LV, but it's probably not all that bad.

Pam

 

[MrJay]

If my experience with a Veritas low angle block plane is anything to go by then a similar low angled bench plane would seem to be a very excellent first plane. Pricey: granted - but it'll be reliable, easy to set up and use and capable for all sorts of planing tasks. I'd recommend finding someone with proper sharpening kung-fu skills (you also need to think about investing in some sharpening kit - which is about 4 times as complicated as choosing which plane you should get - sorry) to show you how to keep it honed as the principle of 'do no harm' applies and it's easy to get it wrong when you start out.

Buying a second hand plane is a **** of a lot easier to get right when you're not a beginner, and there's a lot of junk out there to be wary of. Apparently Ray Iles sells second hand planes that he checks, sets up and so on. The extra £tenner or so he charges would seem well worth it when compared to the endless hours of maddening frustration that comes from trying to sort out a bad plane when you're short on experience and expertise.

That said, it's well worth 'having at thee' with an old plane and making it sing at some point; I'm just not sure it's a good first project.

 

[sniks7]

I agree with all of that. sort of.

I sometimes think it might be easier to buy a large powerful machine like a woodchipper, chuck everything in it and go back to making papier mache ashtrays and chocolate teapots.

I shall give pennyfarthing a try though. Even an expensive item seems more attractive when it costs less second hand.

 

[woodbloke]

mr wrote:

With no one to show you

Mike - that's probably the crux of it. Buying an older, second hand plane assumes that the user will have enough gumption to sort out how to make it work well, or at least better than straight off the shelf from PFT
This is what happened a while back now with Heath Robinson (from Melksham) and it wasn't until he came over to my place with a battered No4 which got sorted out that he had a :idea: light bulb moment and realized that reasonable results could be obtained with some basic fettling and honing.
I still think it's a huge leap of faith though for a newcomer to splash out nearly £250 on a LN No4, even if there will be a decent return for it on fleabay.
I think if I was a complete newbie to this game and I casually mentioned to SWIMBO over tea one night ..."dearest sweetipie, do you think I could spend...." I'd get shot one of those shrinking, baleful sort of glances which would reduce any further utterances to the merest dribbling stutter - Rob

 

[Harbo]

sniks7 - Elliotts based at Winnall sell Veritas and generally have a selection on display by the counter (locked in a glass case). I am sure they will let you handle one - try the LV BU Jack.

Failing that give me a PM - I can show you a variety of planes (old and new) but nothing to sell.

Rod

 

[mr]

I think if I was a complete newbie to this game and I casually mentioned to SWIMBO over tea one night ..."dearest sweetipie, do you think I could spend...." I'd get shot one of those shrinking, baleful sort of glances which would reduce any further utterances to the merest dribbling stutter - Rob

...and then some probably

The secret really is being shown what to expect or aim for though But then again if a tool whatever it is works for its user then all is well, if the user gets results he or she is happy with there's nothing else to sat. Otherwise there is a danger of the whole thing turning into a woodworking arms race.

Cheers Mike

 

[woodbloke]

Harbo wrote:

Failing that give me a PM - I can show you a variety of planes (old and new)

Now that's an offer that's not to be sneezed at from Rod, 'specially as I know about the nice little plane in the green baize bag :wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[bugbear]

I agree with all of that. sort of.

I sometimes think it might be easier to buy a large powerful machine like a woodchipper, chuck everything in it and go back to making papier mache ashtrays and chocolate teapots.

I shall give pennyfarthing a try though. Even an expensive item seems more attractive when it costs less second hand.

If you can get to a fellow ukworkshopper, or a show, you might be able to get some experience of various planes "before you buy".

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

I need a plane. Anyone got any ideas?! I'm a beginner at this and just need something to get me going.

What plane would be good for general purpose use?

Is it worth getting an LN, LV second hand on ebay? Can I get away with something from Stanley?

I tend to get par boards, so I just need a plane for finishing off my dodgy saw work.
Any help, or pointers to where I can find this sort of thing out would be gratefully appreciated!

I'm not familiar with term "par board" does this mean they are already surfaced? And when you say "finishing off my dodgy saw work" are you talking about edge planing or end grain?
Sorry about being so specific but planes can get very specialized. Planes for smoothing face grain are commonly 8"-12" long while planes for edge grain are usually 22"-30" long. As you may have guessed from the responses, no one here is a "one plane" person. :lol:
There are some universal truths you need to consider:
1. You must be able to sharpen the blade. So you will have to budget for some kind of sharpening kit.
2. You will have to learn how to adjust your plane(s). Expect to spend some time practicing on scrap. Pay no attention when people tout a plane as being "ready to go out of the box!". Even if that is true, it is only a very temporary condition. Likewise when people talk about tuning and fettling, the important part is that the plane is assembled and adjusted correctly. As Yogi Berra said "It ain't rocket surgery" but it is a learned skill.
3. Don't worry about getting it right immediately because you won't. Hand tools are very personal. We all develop our own methods, techniques, and preferences as we go along. A bad choice is merely another opportunity to learn.
4. Resistance is futile. You will hear the term "slippery slope" a lot. That is because once you turn a gnarly old board into a gleaming beauty with a plane you cannot turn back. You are not picking out a plane, you are picking out your FIRST plane. More will follow. :lol:
FWIW, I decided to get my first plane because I couldn't afford a power jointer. I read an article by Alan Peters that said the only plane a person needed was a #7 (22" metal plane). So I ordered a new Made in England Stanley #7. My sharpening kit was what I used on my knives, a coarse/fine carborundum stone and a leather strop with jewelers rouge. Now I know that the Stanley was a poor choice because the plastic totes raised blisters and the blade dulled quickly. I couldn't get a really sharp edge with my junky stone but I thought I was. In other word I made about the worst choices possible but it was all OK. I learned how to use that #7 and how to sharpen and gradually moved to better tools. Even the worst decisions in hand tool choices are not all bad.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm not familiar with term "par board" does this mean they are already surfaced?

PAR: UK term meaning Planed All Round, much the same as Americans say planed four square or S4S, (surfaced 4 sides). Slainte.

 

[sniks7]

PAR - Planed All Round. Don't know whether the term is still common, but when I did a stint in the timber trade, we either sold PAR or sawn timber..

Judging from everyones comments I'm sort of thinking that if I had several hundred quid to spend on a plane, I'd still be better off getting something cheap and spending the rest on getting someone to show me how to use it!

I shall go to a shop, speak to a person and let the plane choose me. We shall become a zen woodworking unit and I won't use my little hoard of ash to start bonfires with. I wish.

However, it was the wife wondering (several times a week and even first thing in the morning) if I was ever going to do anything with the ash that started me off on this, so she can have the bills.

 

[Digit]

Personal opinion. Buy a cheapo plane and fettle it, you'll know a lot more about what makes a plane tick that way,

Roy

 

[Anonymous]

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