Plane advice please

[newt]

Folks, this week I intend to treat myself to a top quality smoothing plane, my No 4 Stanley is ok but I would like to indulge myself. My choice is from the following, Clifton No 4, LN No 4 or the Veritas No 4. However I would appreciate any advice in going for a No 4.5. Of course there is the question of bevel up or the conventional bedrock system, my only experience of bevel up is with a veritas apron plane. I have read the reviews but I would much appreciate any comments of their qualities when in service. Thanks.

 

[Chris Knight]

newt,
I'll stick my neck out and say get the Veritas BU smoother. It copes with almost anything superbly and with no fuss, very easy to set up and use.

 

[woodbloke]

Newt - my money's on the LN No4 and after that the Clifton. Can't comment on the low angle BU things 'cos I like to put my forefinger on a bit of metal and there's no frog to rest it on...feels very odd, but then again it's probably just me :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Kierstead]

I expect I am in a serious minority on this, but I find the 4.5 too wide. I've used mine a fair bit, and taking a very wide shaving is really hard work, even if it is a very light one; this makes control of pace and direct more difficult, and smoothing planes sometimes need to be manipulated around joinery or grain changes. Now you can camber the blade a little more and skew the plane to reduce the cut, but why bother with the wider plane in the first place then? Further more both can have undesirable effects; excessive camber creates a ripped effect, and skewing can reduce the effective cutting angle too much for some situations; for example, I was planing some poplar, and skewing resulted in tear-out, whereas not skewing was fine. Just something to think about.

As to brand, it is a pick-your-poison kind of deal.

 

[pam niedermayer]

I don't want to discourage buying LN/LV planes, both great companies; but how about a little interesting diversion instead? Why not try an ECE Primus reformed smoother? Granted, not the easiest mechanism with which to deal, but not horrible either; and it sure takes great shavings, leaves a smooth surface, second only to my Japanese smoothers. An even more interesting deviation would be an HNT Gordon smoother and/or try plane.

Pam

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Newt,

I really like my Clifton #4.5. It's quite heavy and really comfortable to use. Whether it's "better" than a #4 depends a bit on what work you do most, but I prefer it. Having said that, I recently bought a Clifton #3 - didn't really need it, but it's so nice (as are my Clifton #6 and #7 ).

Like Rob, I don't have any bevel-up smoothers so I can't comment on those.

Best advice really is to try before you buy and see how they feel in your hands.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS I was in Salisbury today (popped in to see Rob) if I'd seen your post before I had left I'd have brought mine down for you to try.

 

[DomValente]

I'm with Rob and the LN, lovely plane.

Dom

 

[Philly]

Newt
All the planes you've shortlisted are great performers. It comes down to feel, pocket and personal preference.
You are very welcome to come by the workshop and try out mine - I have most on your list...
Cheers
Philly

 

[Lord Nibbo]

I have most on your list...
Cheers
Philly

:shock: I don't believe you :^o :-#

 

[engineer one]

WARNING WARNING, DO NOT GO NEAR PHILLY'S WORKSHOP TO "TEST" :twisted:

you will not escape without an overwhelming desire to open your wallet
to the vagaries of tool purchase :roll:

actually the biggest worry about visiting philly's workshop is that you will feel whatever you buy is not enough, but you will certainly learn a great deal, and maybe make up your mind to buy something completely different
he has that effect :lol: :twisted:

personally, i found the 41/2 lv a great piece of kit, but i like my bu's too :?

paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Philly wrote:

I have most on your list...

......understatement :lol: - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Newt

I can only commen on the planes I own and use and would have to say that the LN 4 1/2 is the best smoother without a doubt. The number 4 is a little too light and can be 'skittish' in my opinion.

Next, I would go with the wide LV BU smoother - superb and definitely better than the LN BU smoother in my experience. I am extremely impressed with this plane but still find I reach for the LN 4 1/2 far more often

 

[Alf]

I'll stick my neck out and say get the Veritas BU smoother. It copes with almost anything superbly and with no fuss, very easy to set up and use.

Which is what I'd say, if forced to give an opinion.

Can't comment on the low angle BU things 'cos I like to put my forefinger on a bit of metal and there's no frog to rest it on...feels very odd, but then again it's probably just me :lol: - Rob

Not just you, Rob. I had the same issue at first but hardly give it a thought now.

An even more interesting deviation would be an HNT Gordon smoother and/or try plane.

Or a Mujingfang? Surprisingly good for the lettuce; at least mine is.

Newt
All the planes you've shortlisted are great performers. It comes down to feel, pocket and personal preference.
You are very welcome to come by the workshop and try out mine - I have most on your list...

Philip speaks words of wisdom. They'll all be lovely. And if you can resist the urge to bankrupt yourself (maybe entrust your wallet and access to your bank account to a responsible non-woodworker before you go?) then jump on his offer to go and have your own bench test. That'll probably decide you much more readily than any number of other people's opinions.

Cheers, Alf

 

[MIGNAL]

I don't want to discourage buying LN/LV planes, both great companies; but how about a little interesting diversion instead? Why not try an ECE Primus reformed smoother? Granted, not the easiest mechanism with which to deal, but not horrible either;

The horn handled smoother is the most comfortable type of plane I have used, which comes very high on my list of priorities in terms of plane choice. Pity that the ECE primus is such a disgusting proposition, with it's toffee apple coating and a blade mechanism that defies belief. if you want to spend the best part of the day sharpening a plane blade the ECE primus is prima.

 

[newt]

Alf,s review of the LV bevel up smooth plane looks the business but what about the LV low angle smooth plane which has a 2 " wide but thinner blade. In the Rutlands description it says the bed angle is the same 12 degrees and it comes with a 25 degree bevel giving an effective angle of 37 but there is also a high angle blade available but no angle is stated. However it can be used for shooting. Just wondered if anyone has this and has used it with the higher angled blade. It is also lighter which may not be a good thing. I am still biased towards the conventional smoother and I guess there is not much between the 3 brands. Thanks for your comments so far. I have a problem with my spine and all planning is painful I assume the effort to shift a given thickness of shaving will be the same although the low CofG of the LV may help.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well, let me count what I've got: LN #4 with HA frog, several vintage Stanley #4's & 3's, LV Bu smoother, Stanley #4-1/2 & Clifton #3. What can I say? I like tools!

As far as what I use and what I like: hands down the Clifton #3 is my favorite, followed by one of the vintage Stanley #4's. I've handled larger Cliftons (#4, #5-1/2), and one of these days, one of those will follow me home.

All three Cliftons just feel right to me (personal opinion and no connection). Some have mixed opinions about the "stay set" cap iron, but I like it (I hand hone). The iron takes an edge and retains it very, very well, actually better than my other "new" planes. The sole of the plane was excellent, with just a minor hollow behind the mouth.

 

[Philly]

Newt
I have the smaller LA smoother, too
It cuts as well as the larger BU Smoother (indeed Derek C has tested these planes back to back and came to the same conclusion) but it does "feel" different. The larger plane has a lot more mass (obvious, I know) but feels very different. I've changed the front knob on mine to the same as the LA Jack and BUS.
You know you want a bench test........... :twisted:
Philly

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

A few questions that need to be asked when choosing a smoother:

(1) What type of wood do you expect to use the plane on - straight grained and undemanding, or interlinked and complex grained?

For the former, you can use just about anything, and standard, 45 degree angles of attack will work as well as 60 degree, high cutting angled planes.

For the latter, only a high angle of attack is recommended. While this is not the only feature that decides how well a plane will smooth this type of wood, it is a dominant feature.

(2) Do you prefer the feel of a high centre of effort (BD design), or that of a low centre of effort (BU design)?

(3) Are you interested in a wooden- or a metal bodies plane? If the former, is it essential that you have a mechanical blade adjuster (such as a Norris-type adjuster), or are you comfortable using, or learning to use, a mallet to set a blade?

Choosing the "best" smoother is often a meaningless task. If all the variables are held equal then the differences in performance may be down to the sharpness of a blade, the amount of blade projection, the size of the mouth, or the way the wind is blowing. That is not to say that all smoothers are equal. Far from it. Some are better suited to certain wood types. A lot depends on the skill of the user. It may, in the end, come down to "feel".

On really hardwoods I much prefer a heavy plane. My favourite then is a Marcou S15.

OK, these cost a fortune, so inclusion here is just to make a point.

Running a damn close second to the Marcou is the LV BUS. For its price it is phenomenal. It is large but not as massy as others. I have rehandled mine.

A smaller, more versatile version of the BUS is the LV LAS. This has less untimate control and stability as it has lower mass, but it provides greater feedback ("feel") and is also a superb plane on a shooting board. Again mine is rehandled.

Larger BD smoothers, such as the LN #4 1/2 are equally terrific planes. I would choose one with a high angle frog for the timber I plane, and they are now available in 45, 50 and 55 degrees. Early this year I received the bronze Anniversary model from my wife with the 50 degree frog. It performs superbly, but I must admit to preferring the BUS with regard feel.

Some of my favourite planes are my woodies. Among these the HNT Gordon Smoother is the one I grab first. It is low slung, high angle, and has a slippery slide along the wooden surface.

These are all special planes, ones that anyone would be happy to own and use. None are perfect but all work well within their envelope.

Happy decision-making!

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbloke]

Derek - a great precis of the different types, I had often wondered what the differences between the two low angles ones were and got myself a bit confused :? ....now I know 'cos there's some pics to go with the descriptions, definitely now think Newt ought to go for the first one .....where's JK's plane, probably in it's own special category I hope - Rob

 

[Alf]

Derek, it appears you're trusting the BUS to one handle screw? Not worried?

Cheers, Alf