Piri Reis map

[Digit]

So how did Piri Reis know? Global warming?

8 RECONNAISSANCE TECHNICAL SQUADRON (SAC)

UNITED STATES AIRFORCE

Westover Airforce Base

Massachusetts


6 July 1960
SUBJECT: Admiral Piri Reis World Map
To: Professor Charles H. Hapgood,Keene College,Keene, New Hampshire.

Dear Professor Hapgood,

Your request for evaluation of certain unusual features of the Piri Reis World Map of 1513 by this organization has been reviewed.

The claim that the lower part of the map portrays the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land Antarctica, and the Palmer Peninsula, is reasonable. We find this is the most logical and in all probability the correct interpretation of the map.

The geographical detail shown in the lower part of the map agrees very remarkably with the results of the seismic profile made across the top of the ice-cap by the Swedish-British Antarctic Expedition of 1949.

This indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap.

The ice-cap in this region is now about a mile thick.

We have no idea how the data on this map can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographical knowledge in 1513.

HAROLD Z. OHLMEYER

Lt Colonel, USAF Commander

 

[RogerM]

ah, this old chestnut! The following links are interesting comment on the claimed accuracy of the map. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/2007/02 ... reis_m.php

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/PiriRies.HTM

Pretty much summarised by this extract :-

For 1513, this map shows an astonishing amount of detail. The notes on the map explain that the map was synthesized from about 20 maps, many of which were captured from Spanish and Portuguese ships in the Mediterranean. It was also supplemented by accounts given by captured Spanish and Portuguese sailors.

Not a map from some ancient Atlantean civilization, not a map created by extraterrestrials, but a first class piece of naval intelligence. Considering that it was created by a sailor whose country never participated in the age of exploration, and that it's drawn wholly from second-hand sources, it's an astonishing piece of work. It seems to contain up-to-the-minute details derived from enemy maps, many of which would have been tightly-guarded secrets.

There's a class of crank that hates the idea that other people might have real accomplishments, because they never accomplish anything themselves. So Shakespeare didn't write his plays, other people did; Robert Peary didn't reach the North Pole as he claimed, and so on. And Piri Reis wasn't a gifted admiral and good intelligence analyst, but had to get help from ancient lost documents. Get a life, folks.

Interesting none the less.

 

[Digit]

So in other words Rog the author says there is an astonishing amount of detail about the south American hinterland that Europeans of the time could not have known about but dismisses anything about Antarctica.
I was well aware of the disputes between scholars, cartographers historians et al but all sides seem somewhat selective about their data,
An example is the way some authors tie all this in with global crust slippage, perhaps they should look at the Hawaiian chain.
Then having said that Einstein was reputed to be working on the subject at the time of his death.
Makes life interesting if nothing else.

PS.
Read this one years ago, took me some time to find a reference.

http://www.survive2012.com/geryl2.php

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

"As our present science knows, our earth cannot continue its undisturbed rotations indefinitely, and will end its task as a chronometer; it first undergoes a deceleration and then an acceleration in the opposite direction. The physical consequences of an abrupt deceleration are phenomenal: continuous earthquakes, cyclones, colossal tidal waves, scalding hot lava streams, et cetera., will wipe away the existing civilization of that time. "


Yes, of course...

 

[RogerM]

So in other words Rog the author says there is an astonishing amount of detail about the south American hinterland that Europeans of the time could not have known about but dismisses anything about Antarctica.
I was well aware of the disputes between scholars, cartographers historians et al but all sides seem somewhat selective about their data,
An example is the way some authors tie all this in with global crust slippage, perhaps they should look at the Hawaiian chain.
Then having said that Einstein was reputed to be working on the subject at the time of his death.
Makes life interesting if nothing else.

It's so much more intriguing if something can be ascribed to a previously unknown civilisation than just hard graft and canny perception by a mere mortal. The Pirei reis map is a composite from many maps. It may well be that Europeans had no detailed knowledge of inland south america, but the indiginous people of the time certainly would have. Those navigating the coast would almost certainly have charts based on local knowledge, and these may well have fallen in to other hands as a result of piracy, trade etc. Pirei Reis was certainly a very perceptive naval leader - but his skill was in collating the best information available into one coherent document. Just like good military intelligence today.

PS.
Read this one years ago, took me some time to find a reference.

http://www.survive2012.com/geryl2.php

Roy.

As a graduate geologist, albeit from 1974, I cannot really dignify this one with detailed discussion. But briefly, magnetic polar reversals happen frequently, and always have. Only the magnetic field reverses, but the earth does not suddenly flip on its axis. The amount of energy required to tilt the axis through 180 degrees would be enough to cause the breakup of the planet! The last polar reversal was about 690,000 years ago and we are overdue another one. In the last 100 years the magnetic field strength has decreased 10% and in the last 1000 years by 50% , so if you are feeling disoriented perhaps this is why. :lol:

http://www.colorado.edu/geolsci/courses ... 202006.pdf

We may already be in the decreasing intensity phase of a reversal. All the evidence points to the reversal taking a few thousand years, which is instantaneous in geological terms. Also there is no evidence to link reversals with extinctions - in fact there is slight evidence to link some reversals with a slightly increased level of diversification. However, **** erectus and their ancestors certainly survived many previous reversals. There is no uncontested evidence that a magnetic field reversal has ever caused any biological extinctions. Might cause us some problems with our heavy reliance on electronic equipment and would certainly cause a few interesting documentaries by the Horizon team.

 

[Digit]

I know Rog, I was observing that there are some daft ideas. The slipping crust fals flat with the Hawaiian chain for example.
I just like watching experts in a mess.
Like the spat between geologists and Egyptologists over the age of of the Sphinx.

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

In the last 100 years the magnetic field strength has decreased 10% and in the last 1000 years by 50% , so if you are feeling disoriented perhaps this is why. :lol:

So I can stop wearing my tinfoil hat, can I?

 

[Rich]

Roger, whilst your dissertation is WELL over my head, usage of the English language is not, instantaneous means exactly what it infers and should not be used in terms of time spans, sorry to sound pedantic but it was the only bit of input I could help with on this thread.

Rich.

 

[Smudger]

I know Rog, I was observing that there are some daft ideas. The slipping crust fals flat with the Hawaiian chain for example.
I just like watching experts in a mess.
Like the spat between geologists and Egyptologists over the age of of the Sphinx.

Roy.

They aren't in a mess.
In the earth-rotation piece, that is not an expert...
In the case of the Sphinx the evidence is unclear, and there are different hypotheses being tested. That is what science is, always has been and will be forever.

Hypothesis - Antithesis - Synthesis

Theory - Challenge - Better Theory

 

[Jake]

That Steve Dutch guy linked earlier is nails. Well worth reading all of these pages: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pscindx.htm

 

[Digit]

This is my favourite..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

and constructed over a 20 year period

they must have got Merlin to down tools at Stonehenge and help for that timescale.

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

Not at all.

All of the evidence points to professional building crews (even the construction workers' village has been found and excavated). The numbers involved are surprisingly small (a few thousand for the skilled work, more for the donkey work when the field work was over for the year) and the timescale relatively short.

Given that a pyramid was started when a pharaoh was crowned, and he was buried in it when he died, how long do you think it would take?

Many people assume that the pyramid is larger and more complex than it really is, and underestimate the ability of ancient Egyptians to organise and build (see earlier comments) and overestimate the physical effort required. Technically it is not difficult, the Egyptians had worked out how to build pyramids that didn't fall over by building some that fell over and learning on the job. The masonry techniques developed from the earlier use of mud brick (just as the design of Egyptian stone temples may well have evolved from earlier wooden structures).

Some websites which may be of interest:
http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/bldpyram.htm
http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories ... kforce.htm

One nice remark which I believe comes from Flinders Petrie was that when he discussed with some of his workers how the pyramid had been built they told him that they could build another one for him if he wanted - how much did he want to spend?
Builders, it seems, are the same the world over and through the ages.

 

[Digit]

And another one for the gullible...

http://www.linux-host.org/energy/epump.html

Little problem with the height of the entrance above the Nile of course.

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

I think I'll send the author my unused tinfoil hat...