Peter Seftons Machining Course

[Wizard9999]

Well, if you need to go on a course any time soon Peter's may not be for you.

I did not realise Peter did a machining course until this thread and it made me think about it myself so I actually called up to see if there is availability on the next course in December (I don't have a spindle moulder so thought I could do the first 2 days meaning there would be a space for you to do the third day if you decided to do it). But the course is full. So Peter had no availability until the following course which is not until next April.

Terry.

 

[pollys13]

OK thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Well, if you need to go on a course any time soon Peter's may not be for you.

I did not realise Peter did a machining course until this thread and it made me think about it myself so I actually called up to see if there is availability on the next course in December (I don't have a spindle moulder so thought I could do the first 2 days meaning there would be a space for you to do the third day if you decided to do it). But the course is full. So Peter had no availability until the following course which is not until next April.

Terry.

Thanks for your phone call today, I was busy in the workshop with my full time students.

The short courses only run at Christmas, Easter and over the summer when the full timers aren't here.

We never have two groups of students in the School at the same time, so people can concentrate on the course in hand and not be distracted by others. The downside to this is that the short courses are only available a few times a year.

Thanks for your interest and all the kind comments.

Cheers Peter

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

450 for a 3vday course is peanuts and if it stops you losing a hand is an absolute necessity. I don't let apprentices use a spindle molder unsupervised and I think it's a bloody joke that someone who doesn't have any knowledge of how to use a machine that will turn hands to mince in a second can buy one

 

[Jacob]

450 for a 3vday course is peanuts and if it stops you losing a hand is an absolute necessity. I don't let apprentices use a spindle molder unsupervised and I think it's a bloody joke that someone who doesn't have any knowledge of how to use a machine that will turn hands to mince in a second can buy one

If you haven't got a power feed (for a spindle moulder, not anything else) spend the money on that.
If not, always use two push sticks (on spindle, TS and planer) then you are very unlikely to cut yourself.

 

[Peter Sefton]

450 for a 3vday course is peanuts and if it stops you losing a hand is an absolute necessity. I don't let apprentices use a spindle molder unsupervised and I think it's a bloody joke that someone who doesn't have any knowledge of how to use a machine that will turn hands to mince in a second can buy one

If you haven't got a power feed (for a spindle moulder, not anything else) spend the money on that.
If not, always use two push sticks (on spindle, TS and planer) then you are very unlikely to cut yourself.

We have had this old idea before Jacob, using push sticks on the planer is not recommended and can be very dangerous on the spindle moulder.

I know you believe it is safe as you haven't had an accident using these techniques. I hope you don't but please be careful what you recommend to those without experience and don't understand the implications of poor techniques on machines.

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

450 for a 3vday course is peanuts and if it stops you losing a hand is an absolute necessity. I don't let apprentices use a spindle molder unsupervised and I think it's a bloody joke that someone who doesn't have any knowledge of how to use a machine that will turn hands to mince in a second can buy one

If you haven't got a power feed (for a spindle moulder, not anything else) spend the money on that.
If not, always use two push sticks (on spindle, TS and planer) then you are very unlikely to cut yourself.

We have had this old idea before Jacob, using push sticks on the planer is not recommended and can be very dangerous on the spindle moulder.

I know you believe it is safe as you haven't had an accident using these techniques. I hope you don't but please be careful what you recommend to those without experience and don't understand the implications of poor techniques on machines.

Cheers Peter

I don't think you should be deterring people from using push sticks Peter. In the absence of other safety measures and skills they are about the simplest and most reliable way to avoid cuts.
Push sticks on the planer highly recommended by me - though there is a bit of a knack. A beginner is quite likely to get the ends of the sticks trimmed (better this than trimming a finger!) or risk a bit of kick back - which generally is a lot less risky then getting your hands too close to cutters. In the end they are not only much safer but also improve your performance and quality of work - you can hold better and you can reach further without changing grip.
Not dangerous on a spindle moulder - quite the opposite. In the absence of a power feed I would recommend them quite confidently - at the very least your hands are well away from cutters.
NB by push sticks I mean the standard pattern - made with ply or mdf so they can't shatter or splinter.
There are lots of "clever" variations which should be ignored: "grippers", blocks, and other funny shaped ones.
Buy one of these from Axminster and make several copies with ply and keep them always to hand:

 

[Peter Sefton]

Push sticks are excellent and essential when used correctly, but if an employer were to demonstrate and instruct their workers to do wood machining practices that were out side of the ACOPs then they would be liable.

Using push sticks on a planer is not within the ACOPs, using grippers is. I have never seen or heard of anyone apart from you using push sticks on a planer.

When using a spindle the guards should be positioned so that your hands can not make contact with the cutters! A push stick must only be used if it is out side the shaw guard to avoid coming into contact with the cutters and being kicked back.

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

Grippers can be more hazardous than push stick because they involve passing hand and forearm over beyond the cutter as it is exposed at the end of a pass. They shorten your reach. Push sticks avoid both of these - gives you a longer reach and allow other details such as being able to flip offcuts away from the blade, or to get close in between blade and fence, etc.

Yes to "A push stick must only be used if it is out side the shaw guard to avoid coming into contact with the cutters and being kicked back" except kick back of a ply or mdf push stick (as described above}, is very unlikely to happen. What actually happens if they come into contact with the cutter is that the push stick gets trimmed, cleanly or roughly. If you deliberately pushed hard in to a cutter the push stick might even get pulled out of your hand.
Either way it's not your fingers.

The main thing about push sticks is that even if you are making every other mistake in the book your hands are still out of the way.

NB It's taken me some time to come to these conclusions - after many hundreds of hours on a spindle moulder, planer, TS etc and one or two near misses. Now it feels unnatural not to be using two push sticks - or having them close by at all times. For big stuff your hands are safely out of the way even without push sticks or grippers - until you get to the end of a pass and the cutters are now revealed. This is where you pick up a push stick if you haven't one already in your hand.

PS it's best to stick to just the one pattern so it becomes familiar, though if necessary you can trim the ends to hold down thin stuff etc.
nb I see them as disposable - they'll get damaged and need reshaping or replacing at intervals, which is not possible with fingers!

 

[Mrs C]

Peter (and Sarah and team's) courses should come with a health warning - I went wanting to refinish an old stool and left with an incurable woodworking bug! I haven't done the spindle moulding course but have done a couple of others which have given me the confidence using other tools (safely) to enable me to do 'stuff' saving a small fortune.

if you think of it as paying £45 for keeping each of your fingers/thumbs safe - it sounds like a bargain. If nothing else you will spend 3 days in an amazing worksop - and you might learn something as well! Go and have fun!

 

[n0legs]

Go on the training course mate. The money ain't the important bit, keeping what's already attached is what counts.
My employers have spent 000's sending me on courses and training, without some of it I might not be here.




Waiting for someone to comment on my last line :evil: :evil: :lol:

 

[pollys13]

450 for a 3vday course is peanuts and if it stops you losing a hand is an absolute necessity. I don't let apprentices use a spindle molder unsupervised and I think it's a bloody joke that someone who doesn't have any knowledge of how to use a machine that will turn hands to mince in a second can buy one

If you haven't got a power feed (for a spindle moulder, not anything else) spend the money on that.
If not, always use two push sticks (on spindle, TS and planer) then you are very unlikely to cut yourself.

Thanks Jacob, as a bit of forward planning I am looking out for a power feed. To use when I feel confident to use the machine properly and safely, if can't find a good condition used one. Then will have to fork out the £450 for the Axminster Comatic A 32 which I think is the best suited to my machine.
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

A beginner is quite likely to get the ends of the sticks trimmed (better this than trimming a finger!) or risk a bit of kick back - which generally is a lot less risky then getting your hands too close to cutters. In the end they are not only much safer but also improve your performance and quality of work - you can hold better and you can reach further without changing grip.
Not dangerous on a spindle moulder - quite the opposite. In the absence of a power feed I would recommend them quite confidently - at the very least your hands are well away from cutters.
NB by push sticks I mean the standard pattern - made with ply or mdf so they can't shatter or splinter.
There are lots of "clever" variations which should be ignored: "grippers", blocks, and other funny shaped ones.
Buy one of these from Axminster and make several copies with ply and keep them always to hand:

[/quote]
I have several of the long plastic push sticks.

 

[lurker]

These plastic ones are a hazard in themselves if you get kick back and the brittle plastic breaks into sharp shards.

Their only use is as a template to make ones out of MDF
IMHO only MDF is a suitable material for pushsticks as anything else can end up broken into giant splinters

 

[Jacob]

These plastic ones are a hazard in themselves if you get kick back and the brittle plastic breaks into sharp shards.

Their only use is as a template to make ones out of MDF
IMHO only MDF is a suitable material for pushsticks as anything else can end up broken into giant splinters

I've wrecked one once and it was a tough so it was a bit of a knock in the hand - but no shards. The ply or mdf copies are much more gentle when the end is being hacked off - you hardly feel a thing!
The shape of this pattern is much like a hand - knuckles and thumb against the workpiece pushing down and in.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I'm locking this thread now folks as it's blown way off topic. By all means start a fresh thread about safe push stick technique as it certainly deserves some air play but it's nothing to do with Peter's courseware.