PayPal sucks

[RogerS]

I signed up - like many others - with PayPal, gave credit card details and happily bought and sold a few items on eBay. Recently I bought something else but when I went to pay was told that my limit was zero. This despite every preceding transaction being honoured in full by my credit card.

To release my limit I have to go through the hoops to become 'verified' by validating my address. No big deal apart from all the usual aggravations. Then they want me to give them direct debit mandate (dream on) and also remember when I made my first sale.

Below is recent communication with PayPal. The thread starts at the bottom.

If you have a spare moment, browse www.paypalsucks.com. PayPal just reached an out-of-court settlement in the US for breaking numerous US laws.


Dear Brian

I have re-read your reply and would add the following.

If Paypal or the buying/selling public were that bothered about verified versus unverified then you would NOT have unverified status in the first place. To give anyone a £500 paypal limit in the first place is irresponsible and inconsistent with your own policy.

One has only to look at feedback to get a good impression of the buyer/seller. If someone is intent on fraudulent activity then you would expect to see this reflected in earlier feedback.

The £500 is effectively a 'credit limit' although PayPal appear to little concept of how a credit limit works. In the rest of the commercial world, you spend up to your credit limit...it then gets paid (or in the case of PayPal the money comes out of a credit card) and this RESETS the limit back to where it was. You don't pay...then your line of credit gets stopped. I cannot see why PayPal cannot operate in the same way.

I have bought several items over eBay using Paypal. My financial commitments have been met in full and I find PayPals withdrawal of my limit offensive in the extreme. I'm pretty damn sure that there is some UK or EEC law that PayPal are breaching by this action or by your ways of working.

I resent having to give a direct debit mandate to PayPal. The web forums are full of instances where PayPal have gone in and taken money without authorisation and in general the attitude of PayPal towards its customers is abysmal. Check out www.paypalsucks.com. Fortunately I have a dormant bank account that I can use...with minimal money in it...so at least I am reassured that PayPal cannot go in and suck it dry.

I have absolutely NO IDEA when I made my first sale. You know...it quite slipped my mind to make an entry in my diary..

."Dear Diary...what an exciting day I have just had. I made my FIRST !!!!! sale on eBay. Gosh! I am SO excited,"

You know, Brian, I have other more important things in my life to be going on with.

Presumably after I have done everything that Paypal has asked for then my limit goes back to £500....which was what you give out to people when they are Unverified in the first place. So what is the point? Commonsense suggests that we are back to square one.

Roger Sinden



On 14 Apr 2005, at 15:51, [email protected] wrote:

Dear Roger Sinden,

Thanks for contacting PayPal. I appreciate the opportunity to assist you
with your questions.

When supplying the Merchant Information, the information you supply does
not have to be 100% accurate. You can leave the VAT field and URL field
blank. But the rest of the information must be supplied.

To increase security within our community of members, PayPal denotes
accounts as either 'Verified' or 'Unverified'.

Members in the UK will need to complete the following authentication
requirements to become UK-Verified:

· Add a bank account and register for Direct Debit

· Add a credit card and validate your account information
· Supply merchant information (Premier and Business accounts only)

Benefits of UK-Verified:

· Your Sending and Withdrawal Limits on your PayPal account will be
lifted

· Others will know that customers have further established their
identity in the PayPal system

· The verified status will increase confidence within the PayPal
community

You can determine whether another PayPal member is Verified or
Unverified when sending a payment. The recipient's status will be listed
next to the 'User Status' that appears before sending a payment.

To become UK-Verified, log in to your PayPal Account and click the
'Get-Verified' link in the 'Activate Account' or the 'UK - Unverified'
link under your name and email address box on your 'Account Overview'
page.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

PayPal (Europe) Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial
Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an electronic money
institution.

Sincerely,
Brian
European Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
customer subject: You are asking me questions that I do not know the
customer message: Additional Information: 'answer to. Like the date of
my first sale. And damned if I'm giving you my date of birth since that
is used as security on so many other secure sites.'

 

[Philly]

Roger
I sense that, maybe, you are not all that happy with Paypal...... :roll: :lol:
They certainly do take the mickey-I have now gone over to using cheques to pay / be paid for stuff. The fact that Paypal is owned by the folk that own Ebay also sucks-two charges for each transaction-greedy, greedy :evil:
I recommend you go the cheque route until a sensible alternative arrives!
Cheers
Philly

 

[kityuser]

cheques can still be stopped weeks after they seem to have "cleared".

a-la the fraud scams highlighted on Watchdog a while ago.

I`m of the opinion that there is NO way of paying somebody like that unless they escort you to the bank and withdraw the money.


recently I know of 2 people who have lost thier cars:

1) received a fake building soc. cheque
2) was told that the money was in his paypal account, delivered the car, was then told that the fiunds had NOT infact cleared.

what times we live in........

steve

 

[Charley]

When you mention PayPal to people they rather love it or hate it. I myself like it.

I've been using it for years and touch wood I've never had a problem with it.

 

[RogerS]

That was fun. I just received an email survey form from PayPal. I enjoyed filling it in. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[johnelliott]

cheques can still be stopped weeks after they seem to have "cleared".

The cheque might be stopped, but once the money is in your account there is no way that the cheque drawer can get it back

John

 

[wizer]

I absolutely LOATH PayPal. However I trade alot on ebay and it is the easiest and most 'trusted' method of payment. They have you over a barrel.

 

[Johnboy]

John Elliott wrote

The cheque might be stopped, but once the money is in your account there is no way that the cheque drawer can get it back

Rather worringly it seems the bank can recall the funds at any time if the cheque was fraudulent.

See
http://www.bizhelp24.com/news/oct04/businesses-warned-cheque-clearance.shtml[/quote]

John

 

[RogerS]

That is amazing, John. No wonder they can make such huge profits.

So now that they've protected themselves from ANY liability for fraudulent credit card transactions (as a result of CHIP and PIN) by shoving the onus onto the consumer, they are now doing the same thing for cheques.

What next? cash?

 

[Noel]

Roger, for cheques that may appear to be iffy, go into your bank and ask them to express it. Will cost about 3 or 4 quid. This means your bank will post it 1st class to the issuing bank. It will then take priority in that customers "cheque queue". IE, will be cleared straight away ahead of other items waiting to be cleared. The issuing bank will then post clearance (if it clears) directly back to your bank. If it's an overseas cheque and you can't be sure of it, request another means of payment. Telegrahic Transfer etc.

Noel

 

[norman]

Hi

Had this happen to me last year cheque for £4,500 thought it may be iffy. paid it into bank account that i keep low balance and no overdraft. waited till it had cleared on line made print out as proof, then drew as cash over the counter. cheque bounced and they tried to reclaim but with no balance to talk off . NO Chance. they put me into od and started charging for od. It took about 4 months before they repaid me in full. I had all the proof that the fault was on their side and as the account balance didn`t cover the cheque they had nowhere to go. They don`t like it when they get on the receiving end. still it`s a pain.
Regards
Norman

 

[Anonymous]

I don't accept cheques for anything over a few tens of pounds. Too risky

 

[Jake]

It will be a money laundering thing, and I think this is a bit of a stormy tea cup

 

[RogerS]

'Money laundering thing'...not sure I follow you, Jake.

 

[kityuser]

The cheque might be stopped, but once the money is in your account there is no way that the cheque drawer can get it back

I beg to differ, I think you`ll find they can, and WILL

apparently these days you can`t really close off an account (for this exact reason), thus you can`t clear out the account and close it off.

if you read the terms and conditions for cheques, they do cover themselves (the banks that is)


Mrs kityuser used to work at the BOE (thread needle street) as a BACS liason, she says that this happen quite frequently with BACS transfers as well.

Apparently CHAPS bank transfers are the only safe GAURANTEED money transfer (which you have to pay for).

steve

 

[Jake]

In order to prevent money-laundering, there are "know your client" requirements, that is why you have to show passport etc to open a bank account. Paypal could circumvent that whole side of the banking system, so I would be surprised if they have been leant on (indeed my be required by the relevant regulations) to verify their customer's identities. Doing the bank acocunt verification thing allows Paypal to say that they know their customer because they required proof that the customer opened a bank account in their name, which would have required themselves to identify themselves to a bank. I'm guessing, but I'll bet it is that. They didn't used to require this, by the way, just the credit card verification. I've never verified my bank account, but it seems I slipped under the net and they aren't making this retrospective.

 

[Les Mahon]

As an interesting asside to the banks withdrawing money from your account if the checque proves to be fradulant, I had a situation where I put a bank draft (i.e. cash) into my account, it showed up, I spent some of the money, and suddenly I was overdrawn - I knew the source of the draft, I knoew the draft had been issued against cash, so there was no possibility that it was a fradulant bank draft, much screeming and shouting later it transpires that,....

The bank clerk had LOST the original of the draft, and so when the paper trail was supposed to match up with the computer records it did not, therefore they just deducted the money from my account, and only after involving the banking ombudsman did they agree to put the money back, I never managed to get them to put the lost interest back.

Banks simply will not take risk, they will always throw it back at you and see if you notice!

 

[kityuser]

normally I was of the opinion that only "dodgy" builders delt in cash, I`m now starting to think that my bank account should only be used to hold my wages until I can draw it out.

except I`m NOT allowed to pay my morgage by any other means than DD

:evil:


steve

 

[Losos]

Les - That's truly horrific, how about naming the bank? If it's true they can't get you slander I'm pretty sure

 

[Les Mahon]

It does'nt really matter which bank it is in this country i feel (Bank of Ireland it was) but you are talking about an industry which in Irelnad is reeling from one scandal to the next at the moment, the latest 2 being:

1) AIB had "mistakenly" being charging 8% on foreign exchange transactions when they were supposed to charge 5% by law - a mistake that carried on through every exchange transaction for a number of years

2) Bank of Ireland announced last week that they had made 60,000 "mistakes" on customers loan calculations to the tune of 60 Million Euro!

But as steve says, there is no other way to pay for a house then to use the bank - grin and bear it is you only solution

Les