Part P and 'the real world'

[RogerS]

In the process of selling my flat I was interested to note that the purchasers' solicitor had appended the following question...

Please confirm whether any new or replacement electrical installations or wiring works have been carried out at the property since 1st January 2005. If they have been, please provide us with a building regulations completion certificate for the work together with any guarantee or warranty.

Well, full marks for being switched on to the new regs but unless I've got it wrong then their question shows a lack of detailed understanding that is a tad concerning.

 

[Adam]

My solicitor asked this on the house we purchased, and our buyers solicitor asked me the same question. Yeah, replacement due to damage doesnt come under Part P. Not are guarentees or warranty required on home fitted items. A buildings certificate will suffice. Nontheless, its wise for him to ask, as guarentees and certificates may be available.

Adam

 

[RogerS]

Certainly agree with you re guarantees etc but..

.if the work is carried out by a certified electrician then I don't think Building Control comes into it IIRC..

...if the work was started before 1st January 2005 but finished between then and 31st March then it's not notifiable IIRC (but that's not what the solicitor is asking)

....if the work is non-notifiable then again Building Control doesn;t come into it nor does Part P...but that's not what the solicitor.......etc etc

 

[Adam]

Certainly agree with you re guarantees etc but..

.if the work is carried out by a certified electrician then I don't think Building Control comes into it IIRC..

No, but then he'll have left you with his copies of the testing, any guarentees, and a minor works notice etc etc.

Adam

 

[RogerS]

Guess I may be nitpicking but that wasn't what the solicitor asked for. If the solicitor is working under the misunderstanding that Building Control are always involved or that all electrical work needs the paperwork etc etc then wouldn't the vendor have a bit of a struggle explaining to the solicitor that Part P did not apply for this piece of work or that piece of work?

The fallback position for the solicitor under that situation will be to advise his client (ie the purchaser) that they should get an electrician in to carry out a check etc etc and so run the risk of losing the sale when all that was replaced was a 13amp socket !

 

[Losos]

Roger,
Surely you are not expecting a solicitor to understand even the rudimentary elements of electrical engineering are you :lol: :lol:

For myself, we might be purchasing a property in England soon, I don't care about certificates etc. from so called certified electricians, I've never met one who I would trust with my home electrical wiring, I will check out the wiring (using test equipment most 'certified' electricians simply don't have) and then make my own upgrades as necessary.

 

[Adam]

The fallback position for the solicitor under that situation will be to advise his client (ie the purchaser) that they should get an electrician in to carry out a check etc etc and so run the risk of losing the sale when all that was replaced was a 13amp socket !

Maybe, but a competant solicitor should advise a client to have everything checked if guarentees and certificates can't be provided. Covers their own backside. Simply say a socket was replaced and as it is not notifiable its up to the vendor. If they don't trust you they should get an electrician in. Its nothing to do with Part P neccasarily, the vendor of our house managed to incompetantly rewire it prior to Part P. As the purchaser, I chose not to get an electrician in as their is no point. All he'd do is confirm my own thoughts.

I couldn't find the certificates for the double glazing for the house we were selling, and they said "a specialist glazing contractor should be contacted to undertake an assessment".... ditto the gas boiler on the house we purchased etc etc.

Adam

 

[RogerS]

I couldn't find the certificates for the double glazing for the house we were selling, and they said "a specialist glazing contractor should be contacted to undertake an assessment".... ditto the gas boiler on the house we purchased etc etc.

Adam

Caveat emptor :lol: :lol:

 

[Jake]

Roger,
Surely you are not expecting a solicitor to understand even the rudimentary elements of electrical engineering are you :lol: :lol:

I understand some of those rudiments. Perhaps you meant conveyancer?

 

[Jake]

Oh and FWIW, the first question is a sensibly open question - it establishes whether any work has been carried out at all to which Part P *might* apply (and sets up a potential misrepresentation claim if the answer is a lie).

The second question is a bit presumptive, in that it ignores exceptions, but that forces the other side to justify why Q1 is "yes" and Q2 is "there isn't any".

As I understand it, registered electricans self-certify compliance with Part P of the building regs, so their "self-certificate" presumably counts as a building regs certificate - it wouldn't be effective if it didn't.

 

[andrewm]

Oh and FWIW, the first question is a sensibly open question - it establishes whether any work has been carried out at all to which Part P *might* apply (and sets up a potential misrepresentation claim if the answer is a lie).

The second question is a bit presumptive, in that it ignores exceptions, but that forces the other side to justify why Q1 is "yes" and Q2 is "there isn't any".

As I understand it, registered electricans self-certify compliance with Part P of the building regs, so their "self-certificate" presumably counts as a building regs certificate - it wouldn't be effective if it didn't.

Presumably a reply of 'there has been no notifiable work carried out' would be a sufficient answer, provided of course that it is true.

Andrew

 

[Jake]

Sure, which is a representation in itself, and depending on how cautious and thorough the solicitor is (and deep-pocketed the client is) would prompt the follow-up question "well, what works if any have been carried out, and why for each instance is it said to be non-notifiable?".


Which all makes me thank the stars that I'm not a conveyancer!

 

[devonwoody]

Actually I had some new windows fitted last year and a certificate was issued to satisfy building regs for that kind of work also.

New regs require the same number of openings as original etc.?

 

[andrewm]

New regs require the same number of openings as original etc.?

Out of interest were you specifically told that by the suppliers? My reading of part F, (means of ventilation) of the building regs, particularly appendix B, suggests that it is not the case. What the regs do require is that the total area of openings is at least 1/20th of the floor area of the room. There is no prohibition in replacing several small openings with one larger opening if you so wish provided the 1/20th rule is obeyed. Indeed if the current openings exceed 1/20th of the floor area I can find nothing that says the new opening shouldn't be smaller provided of course that the total still follows the 1/20th rule.

What there usually is is an allowance that if the current openings are less than 1/20th then the new openings can be less than 1/20th the floor area but must not be any less than the area of the old openings.

I sometimes suspect that salesmen peddle this kind of untruth because opening windows cost a lot more than fixed. But then maybe I am just suspicious of double-glazing salesmen.

Andrew

 

[Losos]

Jake, Indeed I did mean 'conveyancer' - I have never ever had cause to employ a solicitor so perhaps I shouldn't have used that word.

 

[Jake]

Jake, Indeed I did mean 'conveyancer' - I have never ever had cause to employ a solicitor so perhaps I shouldn't have used that word.

Oh don't worry, that's just me indulging in a little jokey intra-professional snobbery. Most conveyancers are indeed solicitors and I'm sure 99% know absolutely nothing about electricity or, for that matter, wood. The same goes for other types of solicitors too.