Painting pine furniture

[PattyMac]

I have some pine furniture which I would like to paint. I have done this before successfully but I painted raw pine which had no finish on it. The pine I wish to paint now is the kind you buy in a shop with a "varnish" type finish - it's Ducal pine if that helps. Would I need to take the whole "finish" off or would a light sanding be sufficient for a primer to stick to?
Also, what's bothering me is ...... there are a lot of knots in it and as I've had it a while they are quite dark - I know if you use new pine on a door casing, for example, you have to use a knotting solution - would I need to apply this?? I've seen this type of furniture painted before but just wonder if everyone goes to all that trouble re taking the complete finish off etc.
I think you can apply chalk paint directly but that isn't the finish/paint I would like to use - I want to use Little Greene.

 

[ED65]

You shouldn't need to go back to bare wood. A light scuffing up or sanding should key the surface sufficiently to provide a good bond, even with water-bourne paints going on top of varnish or lacquer. You can do an adhesion test on a small patch if you're worried.

Edit: has any of the furniture been in the kitchen? If so it's worth thoroughly degreasing the surface prior to keying the surface.

Knots, you're always safer if you seal them with shellac (knotting is shellac). Because the furniture is already finished in some way the knots may be sealed well enough, but shellac is a better sealer than most other clear finishes.

I think you can apply chalk paint directly but that isn't the finish/paint I would like to use - I want to use Little Greene.

Most paints can actually go directly on to fresh wood, the requirement for primer, undercoat and then multiple layers of topcoat is largely applicable to exterior woodwork or high-wear surfaces on interior woodwork where long-term durability is desired.

 

[Just4Fun]

Knots, you're always safer if you seal them with shellac (knotting is shellac). Because the furniture is already finished in some way the knots may be sealed well enough, but shellac is a better sealer than most other clear finishes.

Why do you seal the knots? What might happen if you didn't seal them?

I remember applying "knotting" to new wood when I worked as a builder's labourer during school holidays in the 1970s but I don't remember what the liquid was nor why it was applied and I have never seen it since then.

 

[thick_mike]

For an adhesion test: apply the paint, allow to dry thoroughly, then apply sellotape to the new paint and pull off at 90 deg to the surface.

A better test is to crosshatch through the coating with a Stanley knife prior to the tape pull off test, but that would make a mess of the chair.

You could try several different pretreatments, eg none, degrease, degrease and light scuff, and sand to see which gives the best results.

 

[ED65]

Why do you seal the knots? What might happen if you didn't seal them?

They can weep out resin over time if not sealed sufficiently.

You might have noticed some brown spots on light-coloured doorframes or skirting board? They look a little like localised tobacco-smoke staining. That's the resin coming right through the paint. The resin is an incredibly good penetrator, it can slowly work its way through primer, undercoat and paint!

I remember applying "knotting" to new wood when I worked as a builder's labourer during school holidays in the 1970s but I don't remember what the liquid was nor why it was applied and I have never seen it since then.

It is still made and is widely available, usually found near the varnishes. But any form of shellac will work if need be.

A stain-blocking primer should do the job too, but some still swear by those that are based on shellac like the original version of Zinsser's BIN.

A better test is to crosshatch through the coating with a Stanley knife prior to the tape pull off test...

This.

The above is the acid test for adhesion. You can do it on any of the finished surfaces so it can be done on an inconspicuous spot that isn't seen normally, like the inside face of a leg near the top.

Undersides of tabletops are good places for spot-testing too, but they're not always finished to the same level as the rest of furniture.

 

[custard]

I want to use Little Greene.

The big advantage Little Greene has over Farrow & Ball is that L.G. offer abundant technical advice that covers use of associated products from other manufacturers. With F & B, if they don't make it then it's never even mentioned.

Bottom line, contact L.G. direct. They know far more about their products than anyone else, furthermore they have a vested interest in you achieving a satisfactory outcome.

Good luck!

 

[thetyreman]

definitely seal the knots with shellac first, de-waxed shellac, I make my own with alcohol and shellac flakes, liberon sanding sealer would do the same thing, once sealed you can then sand it, I recommend always sanding pine before painting it to 150 grit. Also prime it and fill in any holes or marks you find before the final coat, it'll turn out much better and is well worth the effort, dark colour will require a grey primer, light colour white primer.

 

[Mark A]

I recently bought a large pine cabinet from eBay for £40. Keyed the surface with 180 grit, gave it two coats of Zinsser BIN followed by two coats of F&B.

 

[Nelsun]

Zinsser BIN covers all magnitude of sins and lightly sands to a very smooth base for whatever you want to do. It's is a joy to use and you can put anything over it (some knotting stuff wants oil based over it). It's not the cheapest though but worth buying in bulk if you've any glimmer of other painting anything jobs on the horizon.

 

[PattyMac]

Thanks everyone for the advice and sorry for the late thank you - just caught up in Christmas.
I did use Zinseer primer when I painted the raw pine.
Can anyone answer other question re knots and bleeding - I have a door frame which I recently painted from raw pine - I used Colron knotting solution and applied it liberally but the knots have started to appear - How do I go about getting rid of these now - can I? Or would I have to take down to the wood again?

 

[MikeG.]

.......I have a door frame which I recently painted from raw pine - I used Colron knotting solution and applied it liberally but the knots have started to appear - How do I go about getting rid of these now - can I? Or would I have to take down to the wood again?

Many professional decorators apply knotting after primer, or a mist coat. Therefore I can see no reason to take your bleeding knots back to bare wood.

If painting such timber in future, consider routing out a shallow circle (say 5 or 6 mm deep) to totally remove the knot from the surface. Then fill with a 2 part filler, and sand back when dry prior to painting in the normal way.

 

[Jacob]

Wash down with sugar soap solution, rinse and dry. Almost anything will stick to that. You might as well dab in the knots with "knotting" as it's quick and cheap - basically a thick shellac solution, but I wouldn't worry if a few bleed later - it's a feature of the wood you can't make silk purses from sows ears!

 

[PattyMac]

On another subject - we have had a leak from around the chimney in one of the bedrooms - is there a paint to cover watermarks?

 

[Setch]

The aforementioned Zinser BIN should do the trick for this.

 

[PattyMac]

Thanks for the replies.
Setch - I have some Zinseer so I'll try that.
Jacob - yes I know what you mean re silk purse out of sow's ear - these door casings are new and quite honestly they've been murder to paint and prep. I've rubbed down, applied knotting soln., primed twice with a rubbing in between and applied three coats of satin - again with a rub down and they still look - to me - new and awful. I painted the new staircase in L&G and the finish is beautiful and almost effortless. However, when I painted the first casing in this it looked as though it was just undercoated so I went with a satin. I used a good quality brush and paint but it seems as though the finish is not even and patchy.
Old paintwork can be rubbed down and you get a good finish for your effort - heaven knows how long I'll have to wait for this paintwork to "age".

 

[ED65]

I've rubbed down, applied knotting soln., primed twice with a rubbing in between and applied three coats of satin - again with a rub down and they still look - to me - new and awful.

To me that sounds like the paint was awful (unless it was not mixed thoroughly or had gone off). While most paints should not be expected to give solid coverage with a single coat, any halfway decent paint should give a complete 'fully painted' look after the third coat is on even without primer applied first.

Just for a point of comparison the cheapest paint I can buy will cover well in three coats, the first two thinned to a milky consistency and only the third coat at full strength. Anything at all decent when used undiluted should cover at least as good as this.

 

[PattyMac]

ED65 - the paint was a Dulux SatinWood Quick Dry - bought new and stirred well. Personally I think it's the wood - it just seemed as though the grain wouldn't cover and kept showing through - if that doesn't sound stupid. I have just put it down to the wood - yes, it was pine but from a local supplier and supplied as bog standard "architrave" (spelling probably wrong!).
We also bought three new doors which have 15 small bevelled panes in them which I had to do from raw wood (think this was hardwood). Again, using the same paint I had to apply two coats of primer and three coats of gloss. They do look well but a heck of a lot of work - painted them flat on my big dining table. One thing - these doors had the plastic on the front of the glass and were much easier to paint than the same ones we'd had many years ago - just have to be careful slicing the plastic off afterwards.
We got the white skirting board (is it MDF?) and again I wouldn't recommend - I thought I wouldn't need to undercoat it but as it needed rubbing down the finish came off and I had to undercoat it.
We've come to the end of the project at home which was a kitchen knocked through to the dining area, new staircase and a shower room downstairs - back to France in the Spring.
As you've probably guessed .....the decorating is left to me - keeps me busy and other half does the building etc. - definitely no patience...!!
Perhaps I just like to see a completely smooth finish like we have on the other paintwork in the house which has been done a few years - is this the case??

 

[Jacob]

You can't blame the wood if the paint is cr&p.

Linseed oil paint will cover almost anything in two coats. No primer (though you can use linseed oil itself), no thinners, easy clean up of brushes, no waste, lasts much longer than Dulux and all modern cr&p paints.

 

[PattyMac]

Jacob,
If it's oil does it yellow more quickly? Also, I thought oil-based paints needed turps to clean brushes after??

 

[Jacob]

Jacob,
If it's oil does it yellow more quickly? Also, I thought oil-based paints needed turps to clean brushes after??

You can buy linseed oil paints in as fine non yellowing quality as you want - it's what artists use traditionally, but the best is pricey.
You don't clean the brushes you suspend them in oil (jam jar, hole in lid, clothes peg) until the next time. It doesn't dry like solvent paints and they stay in good nick for a long time.
Lost of threads about it recently - have a search.