On butt hinges and MDF, again

[georgi]

Hi,
I'm going to start building several pieces of furniture out of MDF, with a built-in wardrobe among them. It will have rather massive doors, approx. 2.4m x 0.6m each. My question is, do you think a newbie can realistically install butt hinges on these doors and achieve that elusive equal reveal around? I have installed butt hinges only once, on solid wood, never have worked with MDF. And while on the subject, do you think the lack of flat surface will affect the straightness of the doors when gluing them up (I will work at home)?
Thank you in advance.



Georgi

 

[nathandavies]

do you not want to use hidden cabinet hinges that are face mounted? I wouldn't want to use butt hinges on mdf.

 

[chippy1970]

Don't use butt hinges on mdf edges it WILL split. Use concealed or even flush hinges but not butt hinges.

 

[mailee]

For a door of that size you will NEED to use concealed hinges. If the screws don't split the material they will pull out over time. If you really must use butt hinges then I would suggest sinking dowels across the path of the screws. HTH. :wink:

 

[georgi]

It's a shame - I like the look of shaker style doors with butt hinges so much.. But I hear you, it seems everyone agrees it's a bad idea. And if it can fail, with me it usually does. Thanks again.

 

[Benchwayze]

Georgi,

By Shaker-style, you mean plain, framed doors, with a plain panel?

As for gluing, MDF Sheet is usually pretty flat. Lay a piece of 25mm mdf across three sawhorses for use as a glue up table. If you don't have sawhorses, knock up some temporary, hinged 'A' frames from 4 x 1 softwood.

I suppose you will be painting your mdf doors, so why not make the frames of poplar?
To give you some idea of the working properties of poplar:

http://www.sykestimber.co.uk/timber/yellow-poplar.html

Poplar is clean, straight grained, and takes paint and stain well. It would hold screws much better than mdf. Which is a pain, even if you apply wooden lipping.

HTH

 

[georgi]

Benchwayze, you had me rethinking the subject again. It is framed doors with panels and loose tenons, as seen in this forum, and painted, this is what I'll aim as looks.
I've been thinking about this for two months now and rejected the wooden frame as too much PITA in my case. Poplar isn't readily available where I live, but it might be possible to get oak for the doors and face frame, I'll see about this tomorrow. It has to be ripped, planned and routed for me to exact dimensions, as I don't have the means to do it myself. And since the in-laws are funding the project it might turn out not acceptable cost-wise. Appreciate the advise.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Georgi.

The images are of what I term as 'Shaker-style' doors.

Sometimes the 'frames' are made from 6mm mdf first with a Domino, or biscuits.
Then the frame is glued to an appropriate sized sheet of 12mm MDF, thus making an 18 mm thick door, with the 'Shaker' appearance when painted. You still have the problem of MDF not holding screws well.

In my case, I can get Poplar from Sykes, so it's a case of finding out if it is cheaper than Eastern White Pine. That would cut down the weight too. My frames will be made first, then routed on the rear side to accept an MDF or 6mm plywood panel. Then I'll get them sprayed by a friend who is in that trade. :wink:

If you go with oak, you will surely have sound door frames, but don't forget steel screws react with the tannin in oak and cause black staining. So drive steel screws first, to make pilot holes, then replace with brass screws.

HTH and Best of luck.

 

[chippy1970]

You can get concealed hinges with knuckles that look like butts when the doors are shut. Look at hafele

 

[Benchwayze]

You can get concealed hinges with knuckles that look like butts when the doors are shut. Look at hafele

Chris,

If you're referring to the hinges I am thinking of, they are also a breeze to fit. No need for mortices. :mrgreen:
Most of the ones I have seen though are a bit on the 'economy' side, and they look it. I'll check out Hafele.
Cheers.

PS.

I finally fired up the Domino today. Took me ten minutes to find the wrench, so I could fit the 10mm cutter! :mrgreen:

 

[chippy1970]

No these go in a 35mm hole just like normal blum hinges but they have a knuckle like butts.

Not used the 10 mm cutter with mine yet

 

[georgi]

Many thanks to all who responded. Solid wood frame idea was abandoned, mostly because of concerns about getting it straight and of exact dimensions, also hiding grain seemed too much trouble. So I ordered the MDF yesterday, fingers crossed I got the dimensions right (not very likely). Due to availability problems I had to change design and dimensions somewhat,
now the wardrobe doors will be 18 mm frames with 6mm panels, and the adjoining cabinet?stand? (sorry, don't know the proper word) will be 18 mm solid carcass with 6mm stripes glued on to mimic frame and panel.
The local importers of brand hardware seem to list only the most selling items, and those more bizarre like thick door hinges and the ones with a knuckle (I think) are not easily found.
In the meanwhile an idea struck me about how to affix butt hinges, that doesn't want to go away easily. I imagine I could insert a 4mm brass or steel lamella in a slot cut with the biscuit jointer at some distance from the hinge, with holes drilled and threads cut, this way I could attach the hinge with threaded bolts rather than wooden screws. In the carcass scenario the lamella will have to be put into a morticed bed on the other side of the board and then covered with the 6mm strip. That explanation put my English to it's limits, hope it's understandable.

 

[Mar_mite]

If I was you I'd give it a go with normal butts, screws do hold in MDF edges. The trick is to pilot it the whole length of the screw with the appropriate size drill bit. And make sure you don't over tighten, very important. If your worried, use a long screw like a 1 1/2" no6 or 2" no6 and pilot with a 2.5 mm bit. Pilot with a 3mm bit if your using no8 screws. That shouldn't split . And two pairs of butts minimum.