oilstone or water stone and what grade combination to get?

[Modernist]

I think oilstones with their slow cutting are what put many people off sharpening and lead to all sorts of horrors including rounded bevels as a result of the struggle.

Waterstones may be a bit messy but they cut fast and fine which is the prime requirement.

Anyway woodwork is messy - so what.

 

[Jacob]

This is not meant to be controversial but what oils did they use in the old days?
With Waterstones it's obvious.

Rod

Well thats a bit effin controversial!
Dunno. Mostly anyold oil I guess. But I bet there were obsessive devotees of very particular oils "oil of ulay" ?

 

[Jacob]

I think oilstones with their slow cutting are what put many people off sharpening and lead to all sorts of horrors including rounded bevels as a result of the struggle.

Waterstones may be a bit messy but they cut fast and fine which is the prime requirement.

Anyway woodwork is messy - so what.

It's the freshening up wot does it. Fine ones cut well after a quick going over but coarse seem less easy to perk up

 

[Digit]

Like Jacob says, anything they had to hand. But water stones were common. ie, about two feet in diameter, standing outside and cranked by hand! :lol:
Your scenario brings back some memories Jacob, but I have to tell you that Woodbines were a bloody awful ***! The only reason we smoked 'em was 'cos they were cheap!
The idea that it took medical reports to highlight the dangers of smoking is rubbish, Woodbines were always known as 'Coffin Nails!'

Roy.

 

[scubadoo]

Thanks everyone.

Jacob: can i ask why you choose oilstones rather than waterstones?

 

[scubadoo]

so if i have brand new chisels and don't damage them, should i be able to avoid using a coarse stone for the time being? and just go for something like a 1000 and then a fine stone, maybe 6000?

 

[Harbo]

I drove past a pub today called The Woodbine but that is probably named after a plant.
No I was being serious about oils - mineral oils are fairly recent, I know of Sperm Whale Oil and Olive oil has been around for ever.
Animal fats were used for lubrication but cannot imagine they would use that sharpening?
My old man used to spit on his?

Rod

 

[Digit]

When I were a lad! The woodworking shop I was in used Sperm Whale oil, the main reason was that it was purchased in 50 gallon drums for use on some high altitude RAF equipment, didn't freeze, and used in the tool room as a quench when hardening/tempering.
Horrible stuff!

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks everyone.

Jacob: can i ask why you choose oilstones rather than waterstones?

I've got used to oil stones and they last for life. I'm a cheapskate.
I've never tried a waterstone but from all the posts we read there seems to be a lot involved, mainly flattening, presumably because they are soft and wear out fast. I'd have a go if I had one.

Sperm oil - I was going to say that that's what the old chap next door used to reckon. Main thing is that it shouldn't set like linseed etc but I don't know if sperm oil had any other magical properties or was just the best available.

 

[Digit]

One special property I recall Jacob, it smelt bloody awful! :lol:
For metal hardening etc it gave a beautiful gloss black finish and cooled the metal more slowly than water, carbon steels not being keen on the sudden thermal shock induced by water.
The RAF used it on instruments, Radar and cannon as mineral oils froze at high altidudes, in fact the RAF delayed the ban on Whale hunting till they found an alternative to it.

Roy.

 

[Dibs-h]

When I first started proper sharpening I found after a few failed attempts that the scary sharp system is the easiest, cleanest and most foolproof method I tried especially as you are using a honing guide.

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/3M_Imperial_Lapping_Film_PSA_Sample_Pack.html

Google 'scary sharp' for more info.

Just use a piece of glass or flat board with the film and hone away.

Mick

+1 - not the failed attempts bit, just the easiest, cleanest, etc. bit. :mrgreen:

 

[Modernist]

so if i have brand new chisels and don't damage them, should i be able to avoid using a coarse stone for the time being? and just go for something like a 1000 and then a fine stone, maybe 6000?

YES and even after you have damaged them.

 

[Jacob]

....
Your scenario brings back some memories Jacob, but I have to tell you that Woodbines were a bloody awful ***! The only reason we smoked 'em was 'cos they were cheap!.......

Park Drive for us. I remember them well. In fact I could just do with one now as we speak, though it must be 20 years or more since the last one.

 

[Jacob]

.........
I've never tried a waterstone but from all the posts we read there seems to be a lot involved, mainly flattening, presumably because they are soft and wear out fast........

Just reading recent posts -I might have got this wrong but it seems you buy an "Ice Bear" stone flattening stone - to flatten your stone with. But apparently these themselves are not always flat and may need flattening in turn. I don't know what with! Another stone to flatten the stone which you flatten your stone with? What if stone 3 is not flat?
Stoned again :shock: - it's too much man!

 

[Digit]

The old timers used the door step!

Roy.

 

[scubadoo]

Well I've ordered 2 King waterstones, a 1000g and a 6000g and a Nagura stone from Workshopheaven, their price on the 6000g was far and away the best I could find.

I used to be a field archaeologist and found a few Viking waterstones, maybe that's why I fancy the idea!

I've seen quite a few Welsh slate ones on ebay, does anyone use those?

 

[Modernist]

Well I've ordered 2 King waterstones, a 1000g and a 6000g and a Nagura stone from Workshopheaven, their price on the 6000g was far and away the best I could find.

I used to be a field archaeologist and found a few Viking waterstones, maybe that's why I fancy the idea!

I've seen quite a few Welsh slate ones on ebay, does anyone use those?

Good choice. Yes I have a Welsh slate but never used it. It is fine so maybe I should give it a go. (but it needs flattening).

 

[bugbear]

One tip, especially for those wanting to save capital is to note that the wear on the finest abrasives is quite low - most of the "work" is done on the low grits.

And the finest stones are (by far) the most expensive.

But with wear not an issue, one can easily use SiC paper (or the nice 3M version thereof) as the finest stone. The main issue with using paper is the wear rate, but this really is a non-issue with the finest.

So - even if you use Waterstones, oilstones or diamond for your "main" grit sizes, you can "top out" with SiC and save a great deal of money.

BugBear

 

[scubadoo]

One tip, especially for those wanting to save capital is to note that the wear on the finest abrasives is quite low - most of the "work" is done on the low grits.

And the finest stones are (by far) the most expensive.

But with wear not an issue, one can easily use SiC paper (or the nice 3M version thereof) as the finest stone. The main issue with using paper is the wear rate, but this really is a non-issue with the finest.

So - even if you use Waterstones, oilstones or diamond for your "main" grit sizes, you can "top out" with SiC and save a great deal of money.

BugBear

Thanks.

The King 6000g was £35 from WSH. A pretty good price I thought,

 

[bugbear]

One tip, especially for those wanting to save capital is to note that the wear on the finest abrasives is quite low - most of the "work" is done on the low grits.

And the finest stones are (by far) the most expensive.

But with wear not an issue, one can easily use SiC paper (or the nice 3M version thereof) as the finest stone. The main issue with using paper is the wear rate, but this really is a non-issue with the finest.

So - even if you use Waterstones, oilstones or diamond for your "main" grit sizes, you can "top out" with SiC and save a great deal of money.

BugBear

Thanks.

The King 6000g was £35 from WSH. A pretty good price I thought,

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/3M_ ... Green.html

1 micron (12,000 grit JIS), A4 size (3 8"x2" "stones"), £2.60

They even have 0.3 micron, and at the same price, but that's ... extreme.

BugBear