Official line on Glues and Finishes for Food-Use Items?

[wizer]

Hi guys

Can anyone tell me who makes the decisions on what finishes and glues can be used when an item will be used for food use? I mean in an official manner. Like if the product was to be sold. I know that I'd use titebond II or III and an oil varnish. But would that be legal to sell?

Another jus' wondering. Was watching something on making such items and it struck me.

 

[LocalOak]

If the Food Standards Agency doesn't regulate this then they will certainly know who does.

 

[wizer]

yes I guess that's obvious really.

 

[Alf]

Might be Trading Standards - they certainly cover the requirements for toys.

 

[Argus]

.


Food regulation is a nightmare.

However it's a matter of proportionality. There are plenty of chopping boards, wooden spoons and spatulas being sold by all and sundry ......

A quick approach may be a search of the British Standards site to see if there are any British Standards on the subject of food-contact treen.


It is possible that food items and specifically treen that is in contact with food comes under EU regulation in which case you may then consider a search of the exhaustive Europa site.
This becomes an even bigger nightmare because of the sheer size and inscrutability of it.


My experience of government enforcement agencies is that they consider themselves just that and won't offer free consultancy on the law.


.

 

[wizer]

I think a lot of the craft fair brigade would probably be using something that was obviously safe, like salad bowl oil or mineral oil. The problem with those finishes is that they quickly need re-finishing and I suspect most wouldn't take the time. Hence the product ends up looking awful and the consumer mentally blames the retailer. We have chopping boards that look like they have had some sort of varnished finish. Our cooking utensils all seem to have had no finish or just oil. Which is fine, they've survived in the dish washer fine. But similarly we have wooden bowls which have only been washed with warm water and they look terrible. It's a hard one to call.

I agree that the government are likely to not commit to anything!

 

[jpt]

The local trading standard office can help on this especially as they are likely to be the people anyone with a complaint would go to.

john

 

[StarGazer]

Titebond 3 is FDA approved for indirect food contact, also Chestnut foodsafe finishing oil.

Had good results with the above for items used in food preparation, all get washed in warm soapy water and the occasional re-oil. No problems so far.

 

[wizer]

Titebond 3 is FDA

The FDA is American

 

[Terry Smart]

Slightly at a tangent I was intrigued recently to see a product described a 'food safe conforming to ENV1186 - parts 1,2 and 3''. Closer inspection though showed that in this instance it means that as long as spills etc are removed within a certain time the wood underneath will not be damaged.

Now that's not a bad feature but I can't help thinking that the labelling there is slightly... wrong.
What do others think?

 

[wizer]

So in that instance, 'Food Safe' meant the wood is protected from the food? Not the human protected from the wood/finish/glue?

Yes that adds another layer of confusion.

Terry, if a retailer uses your 'food safe' products, does that mean they can sell them as food safe? Or do they have to then prove themselves that it is safe? i.e if something should go wrong, can they just pass the blame back to you?

 

[ondablade]

Food grade materials are widely used in industry - stuff like lubricants, gaskets and so on.

I'd suspect that a decent engineer or better still a quality manager in a food plant should be able to advise you on authorities and standards W.

ian

 

[Terry Smart]

Terry, if a retailer uses your 'food safe' products, does that mean they can sell them as food safe? Or do they have to then prove themselves that it is safe?

I'm sorry to take so long to answer a direct question.

I'm going to ramble on a bit first, my apologies in advance, and let me preface the following by saying that I use the internet a lot and enjoy taking part in this forum. I sometimes worry though that on there are well-intentioned people on the web who pass on information, which is little more than 'hearsay', as fact. I see erroneous information given in lots of places and it's quite worrying.

So, before (finally!) answering the question, I'll say this:
I'm not an expert in this matter and therefore not qualified to answer your question. I can only pass on my understanding of the information given to me by a trained professional.

Technically speaking, an item (or representative sample of a batch) should be tested for food safety before it can be sold for the purpose of holding food. This is a finished item, complete. Most food safe finishes, ours included, can be applied to timber with no adverse effect to the food safety aspect of the substrate but this does not, in itself, make the entire item food safe.
Thus, applying our Food Safe Finish to a toxic wood will not make it any safer to eat from, but when it is applied to a 'safe' wood the original 'safety' will be maintained as well as offering the timber a degree of protection.

i.e if something should go wrong, can they just pass the blame back to you?

Should this happen, and it's highly unlikely anyway, we would be able to provide certifitication that the oil was safe which would infer that the responsibility lies elsewhere.

That was somewhat long-winded, sorry again, but I wanted to give as full and accurate answer as I can.

 

[wizer]

Thanks Terry. I did want an official-ish answer and not hearsay. What you are saying makes sense to me. I some how doubt most small retailers get each product tested for toxicity, especially the craft fair brigade. You did not say by whom the product should be tested by. Would that be some sort of independent organisation? or the Food Standards Agency themselves?

I wonder if these sorts of products (can) carry a disclaimer along the lines of "We use finishes that are food safe approved, but take no responsibility if you drop dead" ?

 

[Terry Smart]

Products such as those we're discussing are normally tested by an independent laboratory; there are a number dotted around the country.

Most craft sellers would probably be careful about how their products were sold; a bowl or dish as opposed to a fruit bowl or food dish; how the product is used is beyond their control and as they are not making any claims for them they cannot be held responsible.

A prime example would be knitted dolls etc sold as collector's items and not as toys. Whilst one would hope that reasonable care was taken with such items in case they fall into small hands, and that the item in question would meet the required standard, it removes the need for expensive testing to be carried out.

 

[Jake]

I wonder if these sorts of products (can) carry a disclaimer along the lines of "We use finishes that are food safe approved, but take no responsibility if you drop dead" ?

Wouldn't work if the items are being sold as part of a business, as businesses can't exclude liability for personal injury or death vis-a-vis consumers.