Oak Flooring Disaster - Help Needed!

[BradNaylor]

I'm fitting some furniture this week at a clients house and they've got a big problem with the solid oak floor they had laid by a contractor 6 months ago.

As you can see it is buckling up by a good 4-5 inches.

The contractor is denying responsibility as they say they left the 'correct' 10mm expansion gap all the way round the room. They say it must have been caused by damp in the room or from a radiator leak.

I think they are talking bloll0cks, but there again I haven't much experience with floors. My thoughts are that the 10mm gap that is always spoken of relates to laminate floors in an average sized room.

This is solid oak flooring and the room is 5m wide. A 10mm gap at each side works out at 0.4% of the width of the room to allow for expansion of the wood. In this case this has patently not been enough. What is the rule of thumb for wood floors? 1% of the width?

The floor has been secret nailed down to plywood covering the existing floorboards. There is plenty of ventilation under the floor void and no sign of damp.

I'm trying not to get too involved but I would appreciate it if anyone could advise.

Cheers
Dan

 

[DaveL]

Looks like time to invest in a pet hippo or rhino, just get it to move about a bit should soon push that lot back down.

I have never laid solid oak floor but the 10mm is not enough on a big lamiate floor and solid oak will move a lot more.

 

[Karl]

Hi Dan

That floor does look a mess!!!!

Now i'm no expert on floors, but my understanding is that you need to leave a 10mm gap all round, and if the span of flooring is over 8metres, there needs to be a further expansion gap left. But always install with manufacturers recommendations.

I have laid loads of floors in accordance with these guidlines, and never once had a problem. In fact i've often thought that the 10mm rule for laminate floors is bull. If that floor was secret nailed, then there must have been some serious expansion to make it pull up by 4-5 inches! I suspect there were parts of the floor which didn't have 10mm expansion.

Was the contractor sourced by the place they bought the flooring from? Or did they source their own?

Cheers

Karl

 

[Timmo]

Again..no experience of putting down a solid floor but I did lay about 50 square metres in our hall, living room and study...That was 5 years ago now when the house was new so I got them to leave of the skirting which made leaving the 10mm gap alround a doddle...
A "tell" as to whether they left the 10mm (or however much was recommended) gap is to look around anywhere the floor meets anything like a fireplace or patio doors or anything (Couldn't tell from the pictues what room this was in) because to leave the correct gap you need to install some edging which clips on top over the laminate to hide the gap if that makes sense (because there is no skirting to hide the gap under) so if there are any places like I mentioned that havent got some sort of cover over the top to hide the correct 10mm gap then that should give it away..
I don't know if that makese sense (it does in my head) but let me know if I need to explain more and I will try and find a picture..ore even worse draw one myself....
Doesn't help solve the problem but might show where the responsibility lies at least...
Cheers
Timmo

 

[lurker]

Obviously not fit for purpose.
Trading standards office would be my next port of call.

The rad leak malarkey can be knocked on its head with a moisture meter test could it not ?

I'm no expert ( as I'm sure you are aware!) but about 8 years ago, I fitted a bog standard ( click together) MDF film finish floor in my kitchen & underlayed it with hardboard as the sub floor was all over the place. We had a bit of a leak under the sink & the floor started "bowing". When I ripped it up, the problem was with the hardboard not the floorboards. fixed the underside ( with more gaps) & reused the boards - its been fine since.

 

[Argus]

.

It's a mess - no doubt about that.

The first thing is, if you are not in a position to offer an expert opinion, say nowt.

Whatever the cause the owner of the floor has a grievance with the other floor fitter and I would strongly urge you not to get involved as it will probably prejudice any recourse they may consider in future against him.

The key question to ask is, "Is it fit for purpose?"

From the pictures, probably not and personally, if it were my floor, I would be seeking a legal opinion, because it won't fix itself and will probably have to be lifted and re-laid properly.


.

 

[mack9110000]

I would stay clear of any arguement the householder has with the flooring contractor.For a floor to swell so much there must be a major issue with moisture.If it's not visible it may well be,a nail penetrating a pipe under the subfloor.It does happen
mack.

 

[andrewm]

Looks like time to invest in a pet hippo or rhino, just get it to move about a bit should soon push that lot back down.

I have never laid solid oak floor but the 10mm is not enough on a big lamiate floor and solid oak will move a lot more.

Isn't the expansion gap all around only for floating floors where the expansion ofeach board pushed the others? If it is secret nailed then that is some serious movement for the last nailed board. It would rip the nail out.

Andrew

 

[CWatters]

How long was the flooring stored in the room before fitting? Most companies recommend at least a week for the wood to acclimatise.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q= ... CcountryGB

 

[andrewm]

Just looked at this again. If it has been secret nailed as they claim why are the boards lifting so high unless it is with enough force to rip all the nails out? The nails are usually driven in at an angle too.

Andrew

 

[Oryxdesign]

I have fitted a lot of Oak floors, the important thing is that they need to be fitted at the correct moisture levels, if the floor is layed when it is too dry it will expand and what you see will happen, if it is layed too dry then the floor will shrink and you get the opposite. Generally I lay at about 8% but I do know people who like to lay at 10. Obviously floors do move around and some gaps through shrinkage should be expected, it is all natural stuff but the other way is much more catastrophic.
I have seen this before and I guess you are looking for a way out so you can get on and fit your stuff. The flooring has probably ripped the nails out of the bottom of the boards spitting the wood so you can't just push the floor down as there is debris under. If you have a spare board you may be able to cut down both sides of one board and remove it, you can the get a lever under both sides and clear out under. Replace the new board but cutting the bottom of the groove off and slotting in, you probably need to make the overall board width less by routing the tongue bigger and planing it off.
Only my view but I hope that helps. Simon

 

[Digit]

Put it this way Dan, would you attach a piece of timber to a ply backing and expect it to stay flat?
I'm damned if I would!
I reckon their only chance is to lift the lot, including the original floor then relay the Oak onto the beams.

Roy.

 

[Grinding One]

I`ve seen oak flooring push out walls....tear this one up and put it down correctly.

 

[Roland Mann]

I wonder whether it might be owing to a moisture content differential between the previously existing plywood and the new oak?

If the floor was laid 6 months ago, that was during the winter. What was the condition of the room at the time? If for example it has been unoccupied and unheated, chances are that the moisture levels in the room would be high. Combine that with low moisture content KD timber, and you have a gradient; and during the last 6 months the trapped water vapour would have been balancing itself between the ply and the oak.

 

[johnnyb]

just from an initial look i would say a. there is a problem with moisture ie a dodgy/pierced pipe or something. and b. the boards look quite wide and in this case secret nailing is insufficient they need plugging and screwing. a 10mm expansion can be quite tricky in places for instance between door frames 12/15mm may be more appropriate on a wide floor. i well remember seeing an floor installed over underfloor heating and the contractors had punctured the pipes in six places, the insurance said 10 times would have shown incompetence!

 

[Smudger]

I did it just once, and my wife clearly felt that it showed incompetence. In fact she told me so continuously over a period of weeks...

 

[dennis]

Johnnyb mentions having a larger expansion gap between doorframes, any floor that I have layed I have cut the doorframes and slid the flooring underneath, this can prove difficult but unless the new floor is only intended as short term I find a better option than creating expansion gaps that need to be covered.

Dennis

 

[Digit]

If the Oak went down on Ply then when ever the Oak moved, as we are all agreed that it would, the Ply is going to resist that movement as it will the more stable of the two. Something must give.
The fitters should have sorted any problems with the sub floor first as well.

Roy.

 

[dennis]

It is really down to how reputable the contract firm is, are they just fly by nights.If there is no obvious sign of cover strips having been fitted the owners should know if any have been pushed off and removed.How are the boards sealed,it looks as if they are ready finished.Is there any chance that the floor has been cleaned using a mop and bucket of water, which is not unknown.Regarding the fitters I once worked on a hospital where some so called expert floor fitters came to lay a sprung floor, and they were absolutely clueless, but I would imagine that their firm were reputable for the health authority to use them and shoddy workmanship can and does occur on even reputable firms, as I know only too well.

Dennis

 

[Gary M]

What is the rule of thumb for wood floors?

Cheers
Dan

10mm all round + 1mm for every metre across and along the room, so if its a 6m x 4m room, gaps of 16mm along and 14mm across.
HTH
Gary.