Numbers Check - Carter Stabilizer

[Alexam]

Just wondering how many people use the Carter Stabilizer with their bandsaws and which model bandsaw you have.

I have a Record BS400 and Crater Stabilizer RIK2

Malcolm

 

[themackay]

Hi Malcolm, How effective do you find the Carter stabilizer

 

[Alexam]

It is effective if you need a fine blade of 1/4" or less for tighter turns and if set up correctly can produce perfectly verticle cuts. It's fairly costly and I was managing with a 1/4" blade previously on the original guides.
What sort of woodwork will you to be doing?
Malcolm

 

[themackay]

At present I have only ysed my bandsaw(BS400) for cutting logs and slabs into bowl blanks and the like I really want to have a go at bandsaw boxes though

 

[Alexam]

If I may suggest, why not get a good 1/4" blade from Tuffsaw first of all and use that for a while before considering a Carter Stabilizer. The cost of a Stabilizer and smaller blades will be heavy when you have no idea if you will want to make lots of bandsaw boxes or not. I started there and only after several months, then considered and bought tyhe Stabilizer. You need to get used to different use of the bandsaw first of all and ensuring that you can tune your bandsaw for delicate cuts rather than the heavier use.

Malcolm

 

[themackay]

What blade do you use for your boxes Malcolm

 

[Alexam]

It really depends on the box design and how tight the turns are. I am often using super tuff carbon 1/4" blade 10tpi or 6tpi or the 1/8" 14tpi blade. I tend to keep the 1/8" for boxes that need the tighter turns.

Even whan I am cutting the main box shape from glued blanks, I can use the smaller blades rather than setting up the original guides again and using a blade larger than 1/4" as long as I go slowly and dont 'push it', but the 1/8" is rather too small for that.. When I first started I was breaking blades with too much pushing rather than letting the blade do the work in it's own time.

Malcolm

 

[themackay]

I did not realise you could go down as far as an 1/8 on the BS400

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've not used, nor even seen the Carter Stabiliser, but I assume it is as good as Malcolm suggests.

Personally, I use my original blade guides, which are flat bearings which support the blade each side, but I simply face them with 2mm MDF, the sort of stuff used for picture frame backs. I can adjust them right up to touching the blade. The teeth cut into the MDF, of course, but once the kerf is cut the MDF supports the blade without damaging the teeth. I use blades as fine as 1/16" to cut dovetails in this way. The problem these days is finding the blades.

I'd be very interested to learn what the Carter Stabiliser provides that a couple of disks of MDF don't. If it really is an improvement it must be absolutely fantastic. In that case case I want one and would be happy to act as the UK rep for distribution!

@themackay My Scheppach says 1/4", but with a couple of MDF disks I can go as fine as any blade I can find.

 

[sunnybob]

http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw- ... emo-videos

 

[Alexam]

I did not realise you could go down as far as an 1/8 on the BS400

The BS400 and most other bandsaws, cannot take lower than a 1/4" blade and even then the setup needs to be very carefully done to prevent the blade's teeth being flattened by side guides,

Steve has been using the 2mm MDF supports for some time very successfully and he has even gone to a 1/16" I believe, just for straight cuts, so some experimentation with such could be satisfactory for many users.

However, with the Carter Stabilizer, blades of between 1/4" and 1/16", (never tried the 1/162 so far), are held by a slotted bearing at the back of the blade and 'sprung loaded' to keep it in place. The benefits are that by only supporting the back edge of the blade, the blade can twist and turn to take much tighter turns on corners. It can also cut perfectly vertically, which is an essential part of woodworking.

As with all bandsaw operations, the setting up of the blade in the Stabilizer to obtain accurtate cutting is paramount and takes a little time to get right.

Unless you really need such tight turns, you could be better off just sticking to the 1/4" blade with the traditional guides, or using the 'SM' technique, which he has proved over a number of years and shown in his excellent videos and it would be at a far lower cost than the Carter Stabilizer. That has to be imported direct from Carter Products in the USA at present, plus taxes, postage and import duty, so it's not cheap and then you have additional blades to buy as well ..................... Tuffsaw of course.

Malcolm

You're welcome to pop over for a look-see if you wish Steve.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well yes, it's a very impressive demo, one that he is very good at because he has done it many, many times. It shows off the kit to its best. I agree.

But I repeat my q. What advantage does it have over a couple of disks of MDF? I have absolutely no doubt that he could make the same cuts on my BS with my blade guides.

I'd probably need a bit of practice...

 

[Steve Maskery]

Let's just get one thing clear about tight turns.

Allowing the blade to twist like this does NOT mean it can make a tighter cut! It can only make a tighter cut if the wood turns and THE BLADE STAYS PUT! If the wood turns and the blade turns with it...?????

I'm not agin this product. As I've said, I've not used it. I know Alexam raves about it and assuming that he doesn't have a vested interest in it, sort of Mr Carter In Disguise, (and I'm sot suggesting he does, just for clarity), I assume he gets great benefit from it. I just don't understand why anyone would want to go for an excellent expensive option when there is an excellent dirt cheap one. I really don't.

I'm happy to be educated.

 

[Alexam]

You are correct Steve, I have no vested interest whatsoever in Carter Products, it's just that having used the Stabilizer for some time and on a regular basis, I believe in it.

With a blade having the ability to twist sideways, rather than stay flat between guides, gives it a definate advantage when going round tight corners. The blade does 'stay put' and that's why it gives a perfect vertical cut and will rarely make any burn marks. If the operator turns too quickly when the blade is in normal guides, it could break or certainly burn the work through the additional friction, as it cannot turn.

My original thoughts were that it was silly paying such a high price for the Stabilizer, with shipping costs, import duty etc, but then I do tend to do silly things occassionally when it's my hobby, (just don't tell SWMBO). However, I dont think I would get such a good job with standard guides and 1/8" blades.

Your own method of using the MDF discs, stuck on the guide plates with double sided tape would be ideal when a 1/8" blade is being used occassionally, but regular users may prefer to have something designed to do a better job. The Stabilizer can be changed to the original guides quite quickly and it's only a question of getting used to the change of blade settings. Like everything, the more you do it, the more easy it becomes.

I would suggest that nobody buys the stabilizer unless they are intending to need regular use of small blades, but try the MDF discs method first, as they may well be sufficient for your needs. After all, the 1/4" blade in normal discs does an excellent job and I was using that for many months before spending the 'dosh'.

Malcolm

 

[woodpig]

I believe the idea of the Carter Stabiliser is that as the blade is only supported at the back it can twist during the cut.
Any kind of side support including wood or MDF will prevent this.

Edit. Sorry, didn't read all the previous posts. The point still stands though, whether it works or not though is another matter. I've not seen any negative reviews of the Carter product, don't know if that's significant or not.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Sigh.

 

[beganasatree]

Hi Steve,you have caught my attention with your 2mm MDF discs,would you care to elaborate on thih method or do I have to buy a DVD???.

Peter.

 

[NazNomad]

The Carter jobbie looks like a great piece of kit (in its own lunchtime). However, what benefit is there by twisting the blade?

The blade won't get any narrower whatever angle you're forcing it through the wood at.

I don't get it.

 

[sunnybob]

if the blade cant move sideways, then the wood has to moved very quickly and smoothly to get the tight cut. If the blade will move a little, then the wood does not have to be moved as quickly.
The cut corner will be the same, but the level of skill required to get that cut tight will be less. An expert will not likely see much difference, a novice will not have to be as skilful or smooth in turning the wood.

Have you watched the videos where the wood swings fast and smooth and the cut is perfect? If you can do that you wont find much difference using the carter guides.
i looked at buying the guides last year, but could not justify the cost for the few boxes I make, and I dont sell them so a round corner versus a sharp corner is not relevant to me.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Steve,you have caught my attention with your 2mm MDF discs,would you care to elaborate on thih method or do I have to buy a DVD???.

Peter.

No you don't have to, I'd just be grateful if you did, it's how I get to eat.

I use it for 1/16" blades. Wider blades might need thicker MDF, of course, but the principle is the same.

Guides conventionally support the body of the blade, but clear the teeth. That way the teeth do not damage, nor get damaged by, the guides. But with very narrow blades there is virtually no body to support. My 1/16" blades are like coping saw blades, there is nothing there.

I cut a disk of MDF and stick it in place on each blade guide bearing. Instead of clearing the teeth, the guides can now be positioned over the whole blade. And Instead of using a piece of paper to give me clearance, I set the guides to touch the blade. As soon as the machine starts, the teeth cut into the MDF, creating all the clearance it needs and no more. Just like ZCI on a TS

Of course, if I use it for twisty-turny work the MDF disks get chewed up more quickly than if I stick to straight cuts, but they are easy to replace and cost nothing to make.

I don't get it.

Shall we form a club?

I've no objection to people spending their money on kit to do a specific job, I enjoy doing so myself when I feel the need, but I can't help feeling that this is a solution looking for a problem, that's all. And of course, I like it when they spend their money with me rather than with somebody else

BTW, I remembered that my mate Brian has a little Inca, small but nicely engineered and that came with a rear thrust bearing that looks very similar indeed to the gadget in question, so they are obviously not the only ones to think it is a good idea. But again, the Inca has guide blocks rather than guide bearings, so are dead easy to replace with Cool Blocks or Tufnol or some such, again giving zero clearance support.