Not a flat world Record

[bugbear]

Before even thinking about flatting, &c. the first thing I'd do is sharpen it up and see how it planes: chances are, it will be fine.
If not, try investigating, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Much great work over the centuries has been done with wooden planes, untouched by feeler guages.

Wooden planes were routinely flattened, mainly the (assumed accurate) jointer plane. This is why the mouths open over time.

BugBear

 

[wcndave]

I am sure that they could be fine, just wanted to make a well informed choice, was not assuming I would have to flatten ;-)

I fell now i can indeed make a very informed choice.

FWIW i took my £10 B&Q stanley SB3, and now that i put the iron in bevel down, (i swear i bought it with the bevel up), and i had already scary sharpened, i proceeded to try to flatten a (very) uneven and rough board by hand, first board flattening of my life by hand.

got the depth to take decent amount, think i had the iron parallel in horizontal way, got it pretty good, few edge gouges where you'd have camber on a plane for that normally, took it down to "wafer" and got it really smooth, was surprised by how flat it was, slightly high in middle, perhaps 0.1mm, soon sorted that, amazed and happy...

then I did the other side, and it all went wrong, huge gouges, i would set depth, find i was getting nothing, change it 1/8 of a turn (less than 1/64") and suddenly take 3m out and get jammed in, then move up, get it about right, and suddenly after 2 strokes nothing again. that side was not so lumpy to start with, however it really felt like the iron was moving inside the plane depth-wise. (I had checked the grain orientation, however was almost dead straight along board, which was about 12" long). So went from ecstatic to depressed in about 10 mins flat.

One very key advantage of hand planing over machines i can clearly see now though is the ability to have a beer whilst you work ;-)

 

[Crooked Tree]

wcndave: are you sure that the blade has not gone blunt? That is how mine behaves when it reaches the "no more cutting" limit. Also try the other grain direction. It may just be that SB3 that is the problem - my SB4 will encounter problems like that on more challenging grain where the Record does not - maybe because it is more difficult to adjust.

Sorry if this is suggesting the obvious to someone who already knows their stuff.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Chaps

This is my flattening set up.

Its a lenght of 6mm glass on my bench the abrasive is clamped down and stretched tight.
If you don't stretch it you will get a wave in the paper and it will round the edges over.
I should use a better paper but thats all I had at the time.
You can start by fileing the worst parts it the sole if far out.

Pete

 

[wcndave]

wcndave: are you sure that the blade has not gone blunt? That is how mine behaves when it reaches the "no more cutting" limit. Also try the other grain direction. It may just be that SB3 that is the problem - my SB4 will encounter problems like that on more challenging grain where the Record does not - maybe because it is more difficult to adjust.

Sorry if this is suggesting the obvious to someone who already knows their stuff.

No, it's all useful, i am new to hand planing!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

wcndave - I'm sure you've worked this out anyway, but how you hold the wood to plane it can make a big difference. To plane the faces, you really want the wood flat on a solid, supportive surface (bench top, ideally, but I got away with a Workmate for a year or two when I started - not ideal, wrong height, not very rigid, but better than nothing). Trying to grip it by the edges in a vice means that there's not much support under the middle of the board, and the downward force you need to apply to the plane will deflect the workpice. For the edges, holding in a vice is OK, because there's now enough depth of wood under the plane to resist the downward forces.

 

[jimi43]

Hi Dave

It sounds like you may be going against the grain on the other side.

Planing should be with the grain...downhill as it were....there is some useful information on Wiki: HERE

Try getting used to the plane with relatively easy woods...be careful because some "soft" woods such as the "shed" stuff can be tricky with tearout just as much as wild wood. Once you get used to planing relatively easy woods...move on to trickier wood that may have the grain direction change along one face. This will show tearout or less smooth areas at these points and will show you what is happening more clearly.

Jim

I am sure that they could be fine, just wanted to make a well informed choice, was not assuming I would have to flatten ;-)

I fell now i can indeed make a very informed choice.

FWIW i took my £10 B&Q stanley SB3, and now that i put the iron in bevel down, (i swear i bought it with the bevel up), and i had already scary sharpened, i proceeded to try to flatten a (very) uneven and rough board by hand, first board flattening of my life by hand.

got the depth to take decent amount, think i had the iron parallel in horizontal way, got it pretty good, few edge gouges where you'd have camber on a plane for that normally, took it down to "wafer" and got it really smooth, was surprised by how flat it was, slightly high in middle, perhaps 0.1mm, soon sorted that, amazed and happy...

then I did the other side, and it all went wrong, huge gouges, i would set depth, find i was getting nothing, change it 1/8 of a turn (less than 1/64") and suddenly take 3m out and get jammed in, then move up, get it about right, and suddenly after 2 strokes nothing again. that side was not so lumpy to start with, however it really felt like the iron was moving inside the plane depth-wise. (I had checked the grain orientation, however was almost dead straight along board, which was about 12" long). So went from ecstatic to depressed in about 10 mins flat.

One very key advantage of hand planing over machines i can clearly see now though is the ability to have a beer whilst you work ;-)

 

[Benchwayze]

That Plane is older than the 60's. Try sharpening the blade and see how it cuts, it just might not be a bad idea!
Strange but I have a 70's Stanley N0. 5.5 that works superb and it's had very little done to it. The only thing that might set it apart is the old thin Acorn blade - one of the best blades I have!

Agreed... and about the 'Acorn' blade too!

The 70s Baileys needed a bit of work, and if you could get one with wooden handles, (or replace the plastic tat) that was nice. Overall, they work well after fettling. But I still love my older Baileys and LNs.

 

[yetloh]

Hi, Chaps

This is my flattening set up.

Its a lenght of 6mm glass on my bench the abrasive is clamped down and stretched tight.
If you don't stretch it you will get a wave in the paper and it will round the edges over.
I should use a better paper but thats all I had at the time.
You can start by fileing the worst parts it the sole if far out.

Pete

Hi Pete,

I can't tell you what a joy it was to see someone with a bench that is every bit as messy as mine. I know I should fight it but you have to accept who you are. At least my wife no longer regards the state of my bench as worthy of comment.

Jim

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi, Chaps

This is my flattening set up.

Its a lenght of 6mm glass on my bench the abrasive is clamped down and stretched tight.
If you don't stretch it you will get a wave in the paper and it will round the edges over.
I should use a better paper but thats all I had at the time.
You can start by fileing the worst parts it the sole if far out.

Pete

Hi Pete,

I can't tell you what a joy it was to see someone with a bench that is every bit as messy as mine. I know I should fight it but you have to accept who you are. At least my wife no longer regards the state of my bench as worthy of comment.

Jim

Me too! :mrgreen:

 

[jimi43]

I feel strangely happy now! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Vann]

Planing should be with the grain...downhill as it were....

Interesting how terminology can mean different things to different people. I'd have considered with the grain to be "uphill", with the grain rising in the direction of planing. :duno:

Strange but I have a 70's Stanley N0. 5.5 that works superb and it's had very little done to it.

The 70s Baileys needed a bit of work, and if you could get one with wooden handles, (or replace the plastic tat) that was nice. Overall, they work well after fettling.

I'm sure not all post-1950 planes were rubbish, it's just that the chances of getting a crap one were much higher - but there must have been one or two good ones produced (by accident, of course) over the years since 1960. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[wcndave]

Thanks guys. I am holding it on bench with dogs, and have the grain running up as i cut to prevent tearout. Wasn't really tear out as gouge out, and the blade "seemed" to change depth all the time. Hey ho, first time, so wasn't expecting much, of course i need los of practise. Just a bit disheartning after the earlier amazing success. Will definately try sharpening first, but i had not done much, if you have to sharpen after each 6" x 12" face, would spend a lot of time sharpening, sure it's just patience and practise.

For what it's worth, i took the plunge and got a #5 quangsheng from WorkshopHeaven. Matt has been amazingly helpful with repying to emails, chatting on phone (i was torn between #5 and the low angle 62 with 3 irons..), and he also offered to set it up for me and more! Excellent excellent personal service, will defo be going back, in fact hard to stop myself, chisels, rasps, etc... Must resist, for a couple of weeks anyway ;-)

 

[jimi43]

For what it's worth, i took the plunge and got a #5 quangsheng from WorkshopHeaven. Matt has been amazingly helpful with repying to emails, chatting on phone (i was torn between #5 and the low angle 62 with 3 irons..), and he also offered to set it up for me and more! Excellent excellent personal service, will defo be going back, in fact hard to stop myself, chisels, rasps, etc... Must resist, for a couple of weeks anyway ;-)

Hi Vann.....with the grain is probably more correct...exactly as the picture...rising out of the face. I like it to stroking a dog really....some woods being Rhodesian Ridgebacks! :mrgreen:

Dave...you have now moved from a "toy" to a Ferrari...

I bet...anything you wish to bet...you will see that this is like dark and light and you will be reporting back to us..(this week knowing Matt) with a huge smile on your face.

Not only will you be able to finely adjust your work but it will skim along....

Good choice! Oh...and welcome to the slope! :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim

 

[Jeff Gorman]

dickster2112 wrote:

>..... what do people think about the merits of trying to to get this thing flat, is it worth the hours of sanding at the table <saw?

You might find some help at:

http://tinyurl.com/3xjpbm2

Jeff

http://www.amgron.clara.net

 

[Sawyer]

Before even thinking about flatting, &c. the first thing I'd do is sharpen it up and see how it planes: chances are, it will be fine.
If not, try investigating, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Much great work over the centuries has been done with wooden planes, untouched by feeler guages.

Wooden planes were routinely flattened, mainly the (assumed accurate) jointer plane. This is why the mouths open over time.

BugBear

True enough, but that's because the sole used to wear and it only takes a few minutes (done it myself, by the way). Not the same as hours of work with abrasives and feeler guages.

I would resort to flattening a metal sole too, but only if it really needed it.

 

[Sawyer]

Does anybody think, by the way, that a metal sole which was perfectly flat in the summer for example, might be 'out' in the winter, just because of the change in temperature?

Does even age, have an effect?

I don't have an answer: all I can say is that I haven't noted any change in a plane's performance between hot and cold weather or age.
Which is perhaps more than can be said for their owner! :?

 

[GazPal]

Does anybody think, by the way, that a metal sole which was perfectly flat in the summer for example, might be 'out' in the winter, just because of the change in temperature?

Does even age, have an effect?

Wooden planes can sometimes vary depending on wind direction (Kidding), but iron soled planes tend not to wander in normal working conditions unless post casting stress' exist within the cast iron plane body.

Age? Nope, unless heavily worn through use or abuse, or burnt in a house fire and warped.

 

[wcndave]

I bet...anything you wish to bet...you will see that this is like dark and light and you will be reporting back to us..(this week knowing Matt) with a huge smile on your face.

Well, given my location, maybe 2 weeks ;-)

I have just today received a blockplane from Workshop Heaven, low angly QS with 3 blades... I know every workshop should have one, even if power tool focused, however i just never got round to it. Already I can feel the quality just from looking and holding it...

i am sure though that there's more to it than just the tool, otherwise we'd all be masters, however removing some of the other factors that let me focus on the skills is going to be great.

Good choice! Oh...and welcome to the slope! :mrgreen: :wink:

Yer, slippery indeed...

"When he turned 80, my grandad started to rub butter all over his body. He went downhill very fast after that."


Ok, real question now.

Given i know how some nice tools, ranging from festool dominos to QS hand planes, do I need to worry about storage?

My workshop is currently -12 c, and in summer will be up to 34 c, so a variation of 46 degrees! (Celsius!)

In summer it is bone dry, the atmosphere at 1,500m (about the height of Ben Nevis) is dry. However i am underground and it can get damp in winter. The pages of my manuals are a bit crinkly now, which is a tell tale sign.

I also noticed my cheap (£10) dovetail saw is getting rust patches.

My grandad used to cover everything in grease for the winter, however i actually want to use them, so should i keep in box? get some of that absorbent silicon you get with various things? wrap them in newspaper? do a satanic chant?

Please don't say "move workshop", i have to build the house first.... so that's 3-4 years away.

Cheers guys, I hope one day I'll be able to contribute more answers than questions!

 

[jimi43]

That is another very largely debated topic....tool preservation...so do a search and you will find a lot about the subject.

Personally I use Camellia Oil (also from WSH and it is top quality) for regular use and if I'm storing it away for a few months..Protec Corrosion Shield.

Jim