No sliding hook on Hultafors Talmeter tape measure

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I got given a hultafors talmeter tape measure at Xmas. The hook at the end of the tape does not slide like a normal tape, and I’m a bit confused about how to use it. With a normal tape the sliding hook is to compensate for the thickness of the hook when taking measurements when you are up against an edge as opposed to hooked over the end.
Anyone got one? Am I missing something?

​

 

[ChaiLatte]

Am I missing something?

Instructions and description of its function here:

https://www.hultafors.com/icons/the-hultafors-marking-measure-talmeter

 

[Doug71]

I think they are more about transferring measurements rather than actually measuring things if that makes any sense.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Instructions and description of its function here:

https://www.hultafors.com/icons/the-hultafors-marking-measure-talmeter

Yeah, I’ve read that, but it doesn’t answer my question

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I think they are more about transferring measurements rather than actually measuring things if that makes any sense.

I mean, loads of the features look handy, especially the inside measurement thing, but if it doesn’t perform basic duties, we’ll, I’m a bit disappointed

 

[ChaiLatte]

Yeah, I’ve read that, but it doesn’t answer my question

On a normal tape, the hook slides so it reads correctly when either side of the hook is used for reference.

On the Hultafors one, an alternative method (the slide out thing at the back) is used for one of these measurements. Therefore there is no longer any need to install a sliding hook. Whatever compensation that is needed to take account of the hook thickness is built into the slidy thing.

 

[ChaiLatte]

...if it doesn’t perform basic duties, well, I’m a bit disappointed

Have you actually measured something with it and confirmed that your suspicion is true rather than just speculating about it here without actual verification?

Roughly how long has the tape been on the market? You can look on YouTube and see the date of some of the videos there. Do you think it would remain on the market for that time if it had the shortcoming that you allege it has?

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Have you actually measured something with it and confirmed that your suspicion is true rather than just speculating about it here without actual verification?

Roughly how long has the tape been on the market? You can look on YouTube and see the date of some of the videos there. Do you think it would remain on the market for that time if it had the shortcoming that you allege it has?

I’m not “alleging” anything, I’m saying the hook doesn’t slide. This means pushed up against something will give a different reading to hooked over the end of a board, that is why tapes have the sliding hookI was posting to see if anyone had one and how they got around this, not to have a row on the internet (I’ve got twitter for that). You clearly don’t have this information, so, hey, have a good evening

 

[MikeK]

I watched the Hultafors video and am confused, so I understand @Paddy Roxburgh's question. At 0:42 point in the video, the guy uses the Talmeter as a story stick and locks the tape for an inside dimension, with the outer surfaces of the hooks touching the internal surfaces of the opening. Then he transfers the dimension to some material using the inside surfaces of the hooks. The difference in the measurement will be the combined thicknesses of the hooks. Unless the hooks are very thin, this could add up to errors.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have one. My understanding is that it is not intended to be used like a ruler, that is, hold the hook flush to the end of the board and measure along the tape. There is no point in this anyway. Simply hook over the end of the board and read the tape. This is more secure anyway.

If you want to measure from inside a mark, flip out the rear scale and measure including it.

The advantage of this system is that there is no hook mechanism to wear out, which is what happens to other tape types.

If you want a "ruler" type tape, then get the BMI (at the rear). Note that these do not have a hook ...

The BMI also lies flat ... like a ruler.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[petermillard]

Unless the hooks are very thin, this could add up to errors.

Yes, the hooks are exceptionally thin spring steel - sub-mm from memory but I’d have to check to say exactly how sub - so the difference in measurement is tiny if you were to use them in the way the video suggests. I tend to use mine as @Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) says, for internal measurements I use the outside face of the hook and the end of the extension, for regular measurements it’s the inside face of the hook and the built-in marker.

For critical work I’m not using a tape measure.

 

[ChaiLatte]

You clearly don’t have this information, so, hey, have a good evening

Please think through the implications of what I wrote above:

"Whatever compensation that is needed to take account of the hook thickness is built into the slidy thing."

To amplify that, let us assume the slidy part implies 'add on 50mm to the displayed reading'. The slidy part will not itself be 50mm long, but 50mm less the thickness of the hook.

You could have a 10mm thick hook. As long as the edge of it nearest the tape body is coincident with zero on the scale, it would work - the slidy bit would need to be made nominally 40mm long but you would still add on 50mm.

In principle, what the tape is doing is identical to the kerfmaker device you can buy.

I do not have the tape measure to measure anything with.

You do have it.

Measure something using its external capabilities and report that measurement.

Measure the same something using its internal capabilities (put a stop block at each side to create the internal edges). Report that measurement.

If they differ, you have a valid point.

 

[frankendoodle65]

The hook is incredibly thin metal, unlike the thick chunky hook on my Stanley fatmax.
If you're worried about a fraction of a millimetre discrepancy on measurements from a tape measure you're in the wrong game, no doubt the wood will move far more than any measuring discrepancy you're likely to see.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The thickness of the hook is irrelevant. It could be 10mm or 0.01mm. It does not matter one iota. It is not used to measure - when the hook extends over the work piece, measurement is taken from that point. When the hook is pushed against something, the rear scribe is used for the measurement, and there is a different marking system used, and this takes into account the thickness of the hook.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MikeK]

The thickness of the hook is irrelevant. It could be 10mm or 0.01mm. It does not matter one iota. It is not used to measure - when the hook extends over the work piece, measurement is taken from that point. When the hook is pushed against something, the rear scribe is used for the measurement, and there is a different marking system used, and this takes into account the thickness of the hook.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It's entirely possible that I am missing something important, since I don't own a Talmeter. However, from the video, he is using it as an internal reference, with the two ends pushed into the inner surfaces. Then he transfers the mark to the work piece by hanging the hook over the edge before scribing.

Maybe the hooks on both ends are only one molecule-thick and it doesn't matter, but the photos of the Talmeter indicate the hook has some dimension. I don't understand how this can be ignored.

Yes, wood does expand and contract, but what about material that has a lower expansion rate, such as plywood, MDF, or plastic?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Mike and all ...

I have not had the Hultafors very long - a couple of months - and it is evident that it works differently from all other tapes.



At the heart of the tape is the lock. Press it down to pull out the blade, then release the lock .... and it is LOCKED. The position is not going to change ... a lot like Jacob

There are two ways to use the tape as a measuring device - using the front hook, which is fixed - unlike other tapes, which have a sliding hook for inside and outside measurement. Here you can see the thickness of the hook.



Or using the rear hook, which is also fixed, but tucked away until needed ..



The blade has two scales on it. The black scale is for the front hook, and the red scale is for the rear hook ...



Let's measure this board (with dovetails on one end) ...



The usual way is to hang the hook over the one end ...



.. and then pull the tape over the other end. The start of the tape body marks the length (Black scale).

What of inside measurements? The first thing you do is unfurl the rear hook. Then push that end against the one internal wall, and extend the blade to the other wall.

Here is the rear hook (for demonstration, out in the open - it has a stop) ..



Other end ...



Scales in different colours. The red scale, which includes the 100mm rear extension and hook, is 100mm shorter than the black scale ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[frankendoodle65]

Yes wood does expand and contract, but what about material that has a lower expansion rate, such as plywood, MDF, or plastic?

Yes you're absolutely right, sorry my above post was perhaps a little flippant. I try not to get bogged down in that level of precision though because it's rarely necessary (for me personally), your average pencil or knife mark will probably give as much measuring innacuracy anyway so I'd much rather sneak up on a fit when it's critical.

Derek's post above demonstrates the use of this particular tape better than I could explain anyway, and also his second picture shows just how thin the hook is - I'd be happy if all of my measurements were plus or minus that thickness!